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Old 06-02-2007, 01:39 PM   #21
Havock
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iron Greasel:
quote:
Originally posted by Havock:
It isn't about color or social standing, it's about the person.
Which person? Some guy you know from work? The situation with the aboriginals seems to be that very many of them behave differently from the majority of the immigrants. So many, in fact, that it shows up in statistics. Sounds to me like a mostly cultural difference, not a personal one. And with the African-Americans it most certainly has to do with color. They're black. They're not going to get any less black just because you don't use the word "■■■■■■". And everything has to do with social standing. If you work in a sweatshop 21 hours a day, from the age of four, ad mortem, you are different from someone who can afford the sweatshopped clothes, and very different from someone who has the majority of stocks in the company whose logo appears on the clothes. Not all are given equal choises. And among those who are, trends often follow race, color and social standing. [/QUOTE]Color has nothing to do with it. Lazy and useless is lazy and useless no matter what color they are. The minority card is a complete excuse to give up. You get out of life what you put into it. So, if all you put into your life is bottles of liquor all you are going to get out of life is piss. People always have excuses why they can't do something instead of just trying to do it.
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Old 06-02-2007, 03:20 PM   #22
Iron Greasel
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Quote:
Originally posted by Havock:
Color has nothing to do with it. Lazy and useless is lazy and useless no matter what color they are. The minority card is a complete excuse to give up. You get out of life what you put into it. So, if all you put into your life is bottles of liquor all you are going to get out of life is piss. People always have excuses why they can't do something instead of just trying to do it.
If color has nothing to do with it, why are the numbers so different for the aboriginals? Or is the "15 times the chance to go to jail"-thingy just statistical randomness?
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Old 06-02-2007, 03:45 PM   #23
Havock
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Quote:
Originally posted by Iron Greasel:
quote:
Originally posted by Havock:
Color has nothing to do with it. Lazy and useless is lazy and useless no matter what color they are. The minority card is a complete excuse to give up. You get out of life what you put into it. So, if all you put into your life is bottles of liquor all you are going to get out of life is piss. People always have excuses why they can't do something instead of just trying to do it.
If color has nothing to do with it, why are the numbers so different for the aboriginals? Or is the "15 times the chance to go to jail"-thingy just statistical randomness? [/QUOTE]Well,it's 1 of 2 things. #1 you have a racist system that unfairly convicts them OR #2 they are too lazy to get jobs and would rather rob and steal. I would bet on option #2. I am willing to bet if the govenment cut off the dole they would all have no problem finding some sort of work. No one is telling them to go out and commit crimes. Unless they are conscrips in some sort of criminal army,it comes down to personal choice. Break into houses or break into the job market. They are choosing to be criminals and all choices have consequences.
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Old 06-02-2007, 08:21 PM   #24
robertthebard
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When did race trump personal responsibility? I'm white, so I'm responsible for my actions, and I'm responsible for all the actions of my ancestors, who did own slaves? This is the world's biggest cop-out. "I'm forced into a life of crime by the white person". The fact that they'd rather lay around and collect welfare and hit the crack pipe has nothing to do with their criminal activities? As I said before, unless someone can show me a white person holding a gun on them and forcing them to commit these crimes, responsibility for the changes has to come from them, whether that be black people here in the States, or Aboriginals in Australia. I refuse to be held accountable for the actions of a criminal when I am not involved with the crime. Face it, white people are not the reason why there are so many black people in prison. From reading this, if I were from anywhere else but here, I would get the impression that there are no black judges, lawyers, doctors, etc. I know this to be false, since I live here. Some how, some way, these people managed to scrape themselves out from underneath all these years of "Whitey Oppression" to make something out of themselves. Could it be that effort = results is a true formula? "I don't want to do that, because it's too hard. It's much easier to sell crack to the lazy people that want it". The lazy people that have to rob people, and break into businesses and homes to pay for their habit. If they put 1/4 the effort into an education, and finding work that they put into getting "high", they could break out of the cycle. However, to blame that on racial oppression isn't true. Afterall, there are just as many black crack pushers, if not more, in my area anyway, so is it racial oppression by people of their own race? People that are more than ready to cop out to "Whitey made me do it".
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Old 06-02-2007, 10:52 PM   #25
Illumina Drathiran'ar
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Quote:
Originally posted by Havock:
quote:
Originally posted by Iron Greasel:
quote:
Originally posted by Havock:
Color has nothing to do with it. Lazy and useless is lazy and useless no matter what color they are. The minority card is a complete excuse to give up. You get out of life what you put into it. So, if all you put into your life is bottles of liquor all you are going to get out of life is piss. People always have excuses why they can't do something instead of just trying to do it.
If color has nothing to do with it, why are the numbers so different for the aboriginals? Or is the "15 times the chance to go to jail"-thingy just statistical randomness? [/QUOTE]Well,it's 1 of 2 things. #1 you have a racist system that unfairly convicts them OR #2 they are too lazy to get jobs and would rather rob and steal. I would bet on option #2.[/QUOTE]Now you're skirting awfully close to racist territory, buddy. And for the record, robbing and stealing is pretty hard work if you ask me.
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Old 06-03-2007, 04:49 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar:
quote:
Originally posted by Havock:
Well,it's 1 of 2 things. #1 you have a racist system that unfairly convicts them OR #2 they are too lazy to get jobs and would rather rob and steal. I would bet on option #2.
Now you're skirting awfully close to racist territory, buddy. [/QUOTE]Prove him wrong then.
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Old 06-03-2007, 10:47 AM   #27
robertthebard
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If I see a cat, and call it a cat, that's not racist. If somebody is being lazy, and is called lazy, that's descriptive, and maybe a little tactless, but it's not racist, regardless of what race "Lazy" belongs to.

I'll just use myself as an example. I spent 5 1/2 years in prison. I spent that time because I was too lazy to keep a job. Getting up in the morning after partying my paycheck away was too much effort. Should I blame society for my laziness? I didn't want to walk from one place to the next, so I stole cars to get there. How much of this should I blame on society, or laws? Is it different because I'm white? If so, that's as racist as it gets.

I have a friend that won't leave drugs alone, and so, has spent most of his adult life in prison. I've known this man for close to 30 years, and he's spent 25 of those years in prison behind drugs, and getting them. How much of this is society's fault? He's Native American, so maybe we should allow him to blame the white man for his inability, or lack of desire, to leave drugs alone. He's out now, but the last time I saw him, he was high. Not a very wise thing to do, since he's going to see a Parole Officer, and they will UA him. I suppose that he doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions though, since he's Native American. Therefore, it's all my fault, as a white man, that he can't leave drugs alone.
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Old 06-04-2007, 12:21 AM   #28
wellard
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Aelia Jusa That was a wonderfully composed essay and interesting to get an insight by someone involved close enough to see the real devastation that is still ongoing. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

When I first came to Australia over a couple of decades ago I was so disappointed to see cliché groups of Aboriginals drunk and fighting amongst themselves outside the odd bar. Of course it took me a long time to realise that I was just being blind to the larger groups of pissed Australians doing the same thing in more bars but that was so normal to me I overlooked them!

I know a lot of money is being spent now though maybe (almost certainly) not in the right areas. A hundred years of stolen generations where all aboriginal children where taken from there parents and given to white families to be often abused and treated like slaves only stopped in 1969 The concept of land being given back to the Aboriginal communities as there own property rather than a gift only came about in 1992

What are the answers to the disgrace? I don’t know, I guess time like Illumina Drathiran'ar says will certainly help
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Old 06-04-2007, 01:20 AM   #29
Illumina Drathiran'ar
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZFR:
quote:
Originally posted by Illumina Drathiran'ar:
quote:
Originally posted by Havock:
Well,it's 1 of 2 things. #1 you have a racist system that unfairly convicts them OR #2 they are too lazy to get jobs and would rather rob and steal. I would bet on option #2.
Now you're skirting awfully close to racist territory, buddy. [/QUOTE]Prove him wrong then. [/QUOTE]Pshht. If there's one thing I've learned, it's that no matter what I say, it won't change ignorance. Firsthand experience is the only thing that could do it.

But hey, what do I know? I'm just some dopey person educated in the social sciences.
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Old 06-04-2007, 03:34 AM   #30
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Some authours on critical race theory could give you a fairly extreme account of inherrent racial inbalances in soceity. No comment on the thread though, don't really know enough about it, only done a basic study of black US civil rights from emmancipation to the modern day, so I wouldn't really know what I'm talking about.
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