Your choice... plz answer all of you

[Harkoliar]

i have a unique problem for all of you...

who would you choose or how will you decide?

problem A.

a certain guy named "A" asked helped from "B" about a certain subject matter or something. "B" said that he was busy and could not help "A". Because of that, "A" got mad at "B" and telling him that he/she is a selfish person since he/she would not like to help "A". "B" responded in kind that "A" is the one selfish and not considerate of other peoples feelings or schedule... now i ask you "Who is selfish among them?"

Problem B

a beggar approaches you and ask for money? will you give the money, knowing that you are just encouraging him/her to beg again to other people or will you not give money that may force the beggar to commit a crime in order to survive? (i know that there is alternative ways like giving the beggar food or bringing him or her to a shelter station for help, but if you only had those two choices, which would you choose among them??)

i am giving these questions knowing that i will encounter similar events like these i wish to be somewhat prepared for this kinds of problems. share your wisdom or comments on these matter folks... thanks

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Revived I Am to hunt this world... Banish ye evil or face my wrath...

[Neb]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: Problem A. A certain guy named "A" asked helped from "B" about a certain subject matter or something. "B" said that he was busy and could not help "A". Because of that, "A" got mad at "B" and telling him that he/she is a selfish person since he/she would not like to help "A". "B" responded in kind that "A" is the one selfish and not considerate of other peoples feelings or schedule... now i ask you "Who is selfish among them?"

(Well, I would say that they are BOTH selfish, "B" could have taken a bit of time out of his busy schedule to help "A", one is rarely so busy that one has absolutely NO time left to do anything else, "A" should have been considerate of "B"'s business, it might have been something REALLY important that couldn't wait a moment longer and maybe "A" could wait until "B" was done, or maybe he could find person "C" and ask him/her for help.)

Originally posted by Harkoliar: Problem B A beggar approaches you and ask for money? will you give the money, knowing that you are just encouraging him/her to beg again to other people or will you not give money that may force the beggar to commit a crime in order to survive? (i know that there is alternative ways like giving the beggar food or bringing him or her to a shelter station for help, but if you only had those two choices, which would you choose among them??)

(If I had the money I would give the beggar some, even though it might encourage him/her to beg more, at least him/her is not stealing or starving.)



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Worshipper of Tiax.
Wielder of the ancient Lawyer spells.
Member of the HADB clan.

Ally of the Fluffy Queen and the Dreaded Red Fluffy
General of the highest class and Leader of the Legal Department in the IW Peacekeeping Force.
ORT member, Official Demander of Stuff.

"If Silence is golden, why does everyone talk so much?"

[250]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: i have a unique problem for all of you... who would you choose or how will you decide? problem A. a certain guy named "A" asked helped from "B" about a certain subject matter or something. "B" said that he was busy and could not help "A". Because of that, "A" got mad at "B" and telling him that he/she is a selfish person since he/she would not like to help "A". "B" responded in kind that "A" is the one selfish and not considerate of other peoples feelings or schedule... now i ask you "Who is selfish among them?" Problem B a beggar approaches you and ask for money? will you give the money, knowing that you are just encouraging him/her to beg again to other people or will you not give money that may force the beggar to commit a crime in order to survive? (i know that there is alternative ways like giving the beggar food or bringing him or her to a shelter station for help, but if you only had those two choices, which would you choose among them??) i am giving these questions knowing that i will encounter similar events like these i wish to be somewhat prepared for this kinds of problems. share your wisdom or comments on these matter folks... thanks

first of all, everyone IS accountable for his/her own problems. this is truth, not an opinion.

that said, for problem A
help is NOT granted. even among friends. Since A is accountable for his/her own problems, he/she should be grateful that if anyone helps him/her. B told A he is busy, so A should not continuing bugging B

for problem B
the begger is accountable for his own problem, which led him to where he is now. you are not responsible for his situation, therefore, you are not required to give him any money. If he goes committe a crime, it is not anything but BY HIS OWN CHOICE. no money for him

[Harkoliar]

thanks Neb and 250

250,
you do have an interesting answer however (in prob. B), some if not MOST of the beggars are born poor and dont have the ways and means to climb the social ladder of society (sad but true ). it is not their choice whether or not to be born poor and the governement (well in my country anyway) does not give excellent or even adequete solution to this problem. if an adult is still begging, that is understandable since they still have a choice about that, but what about a child? im walking and commuting everyday to school and i always see at least THREE children who are begging for money. do these children have a choice in the cold urban city world? (sorry for not including this on the original problem, beggar is a general kind of word that fits all people, age and race)

Neb,
you know (in prob A), i never though of bringing in a "C" person . thats a good one... but if giving a choice that needs to let you choose between "A" and "B" who would you choose?

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Revived I Am to hunt this world... Banish ye evil or face my wrath...

[250]

you do not have control over family, station, health state, race when you were born.

is it fair? no

are you acountable for your life? yes

I am not here to argue with you about how unfair fate is
only to point out: you are on your own

how well you live right now is the result 5 or 10 or 20 years ago. if you choose not to deal with problems, they accumulate, and you end up in poverty, divorce, bankrupcy, mental break down, being abused, sick, ill, and worse, dead

I've seen many of those who are born disabled, and they acheived so much more than most "normal" people I knew of. so what does that say to you? you ARE accountable. the way of your life is the result of YOUR choice.

[This message has been edited by 250 (edited 10-06-2001).]

[Neb]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: Neb, you know (in prob A), i never though of bringing in a "C" person . thats a good one... but if giving a choice that needs to let you choose between "A" and "B" who would you choose?

If I have to choose ONE of them, and only ONE, then I think I would have to choose person "A", he/she should maybe be a bit more patient, perhaps he/she could ask "B" to help him/her AFTER "B" had finished doing whatever it was he/she was doing.


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Worshipper of Tiax.
Wielder of the ancient Lawyer spells.
Member of the HADB clan.

Ally of the Fluffy Queen and the Dreaded Red Fluffy
General of the highest class and Leader of the Legal Department in the IW Peacekeeping Force.
ORT member, Official Demander of Stuff.

"If Silence is golden, why does everyone talk so much?"

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Harkoliar: thanks Neb and 250 250, you do have an interesting answer however (in prob. B), some if not MOST of the beggars are born poor and dont have the ways and means to climb the social ladder of society (sad but true ). it is not their choice whether or not to be born poor and the governement (well in my country anyway) does not give excellent or even adequete solution to this problem. if an adult is still begging, that is understandable since they still have a choice about that, but what about a child? im walking and commuting everyday to school and i always see at least THREE children who are begging for money. do these children have a choice in the cold urban city world? (sorry for not including this on the original problem, beggar is a general kind of word that fits all people, age and race)

Couldn't have said it better!
250, everybody is accountable for their own problems? Boy, am I glad you're one of the few who think that, otherwise this world would be a horrible place.

I thought Neb's post was very wellwritten and I agree with it for the most part. Harkoliar, that was a good comment you made about beggars. Where I live, almost all beggars are drug/drink abusers who ended up on the street as adults. I never give them money because they'd only spend it on drugs and I think I could use it better. In this, I don't agree with Neb, as I will never give such people money. However, I have brought one beggar that we knew a little bit a warm plate of food on a few occasions, and in this my opinion differs from 250's - I think they certainly deserve help, and I'm all for the beggar shelters we have in Amsterdam (where they can get a cup of coffee, a meal and a place to sleep). Such a darwinist view of leaving the weak to their own devices is despicable to me.
Anyway, the distinction was well made, because I can certainly imagine giving money to the kind of beggars you are talking about. This would be different for every country/culture.

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Melusine, Sultry Elflet,
High Queen of Fluffies,
Archbabe of the OHF,
LH, HADB and ORT!

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art

[250]

Originally posted by Melusine: Couldn't have said it better! 250, everybody is accountable for their own problems? Boy, am I glad you're one of the few who think that, otherwise this world would be a horrible place. I thought Neb's post was very wellwritten and I agree with it for the most part. Harkoliar, that was a good comment you made about beggars. Where I live, almost all beggars are drug/drink abusers who ended up on the street as adults. I never give them money because they'd only spend it on drugs and I think I could use it better. In this, I don't agree with Neb, as I will never give such people money. However, I have brought one beggar that we knew a little bit a warm plate of food on a few occasions, and in this my opinion differs from 250's - I think they certainly deserve help, and I'm all for the beggar shelters we have in Amsterdam (where they can get a cup of coffee, a meal and a place to sleep). Such a darwinist view of leaving the weak to their own devices is despicable to me. Anyway, the distinction was well made, because I can certainly imagine giving money to the kind of beggars you are talking about. This would be different for every country/culture.

have you thought why they are in the state they are?
why did you offer help to them?
what made you offer help to these people, and not the drunks?

let me ASSUME that those you helped are "nice" and "poor" correct?
so why are they poor? have you ever asked? what made them the way they are?
If you search carefully, they are accountable for their situation, without single exception, yes, everyone of them is.

after all:
he chose where to be
he chose how to act
he chose what stock to pick
he chose what job to do
he chose whom to marry
he chose what to concentrate on
he chose what t believe
he chose when to go along
he chose when to resist
he chose whom to trust
he chose what bank to put in his money
he chose to help that person
he chose to avoid
he chose to what to say about:
Self
Others
Risks
Needs
Rights

look carefully, everyone IS responsible for his live and the way he is

[Harkoliar]

Originally posted by 250
you do not have control over family, station, health state, race when you were born.
is it fair? no

are you acountable for your life? yes

I am not here to argue with you about how unfair fate is
only to point out: you are on your own

how well you live right now is the result 5 or 10 or 20 years ago. if you choose not to deal with problems, they accumulate, and you end up in poverty, divorce, bankrupcy, mental break down, being abused, sick, ill, and worse, dead

I've seen many of those who are born disabled, and they acheived so much more than most "normal" people I knew of. so what does that say to you? you ARE accountable. the way of your life is the result of YOUR choice.



as much as i hate to disagree with you, you are right to say on what you have said 250.

Originaly posted by Neb
If I have to choose ONE of them, and only ONE, then I think I would have to choose person "A", he/she should maybe be a bit more patient, perhaps he/she could ask "B" to help him/her AFTER "B" had finished doing whatever it was he/she was doing.


methinks that is the right one to say although some may think otherwise . each person has his/her own opinion. thanks for you 2c

Originaly posted by Melusine
I never give them money because they'd only spend it on drugs and I think I could use it better. In this, I don't agree with Neb, as I will never give such people money. However, I have brought one beggar that we knew a little bit a warm plate of food on a few occasions, and in this my opinion differs from 250's - I think they certainly deserve help, and I'm all for the beggar shelters we have in Amsterdam (where they can get a cup of coffee, a meal and a place to sleep). Such a darwinist view of leaving the weak to their own devices is despicable to me.


ah! the darwin's principle "the strong shall live and the weak shall die", "the mighty will always rule over the weak", such is power ethics. but i ask you now Melusine, IF money is the only option, what would you do? i have suffered in my conscience because of what i see in the "cold, real world". being kinda sheltered then seeing this kind of poverty, it truly makes me sad to see this kind of things happening around me.



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Revived I Am to hunt this world... Banish ye evil or face my wrath...

[Melusine]

Originally posted by 250: have you thought why they are in the state they are? why did you offer help to them? what made you offer help to these people, and not the drunks? let me ASSUME that those you helped are "nice" and "poor" correct? so why are they poor? have you ever asked? what made them the way they are? If you search carefully, they are accountable for their situation, without single exception, yes, everyone of them is.

First of all I NEVER said I would only help those who are "nice" and "poor" I said I wouldn't give money to drug abusers, not that I wouldn't help them AT ALL! The man I brought food (he passed away last winter) was an alcoholist, so I'd never give him money, but he did really appreciate the food. Around Christmas we brought him some home-made cake, and it sure meant a lot to him. I was just stating that I would rather help by other means than financial ones, but I certainly believe in helping those who need it.

look carefully, everyone IS responsible for his live and the way he is

Stop generalising!! You know what happened the last time you did that...you ended up hurting people. What about people who are born in squalor and poverty, who never got a chance to get an education? What about people with mental diseases? What about people who suffer from illnesses. Frankly, the way you phrased it here (and I can just hope you meant it differently), your judgemental rigidity sickens me.


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Melusine, Sultry Elflet,
High Queen of Fluffies,
Archbabe of the OHF,
LH, HADB and ORT!

Your voice is ambrosia
Amy Brown Fantasy Art