Guns.

[Yorick]

Paranoia.

[Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV]

Posted By: Yorick Paranoia.

DENIAL.

[Epona]

Originally posted by Sir Heinrich Godfrie IV: quote: Posted By: Yorick Paranoia.

DENIAL.[/QUOTE]Zucchini. (sorry, sorry, I'll just get my coat) [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img]

[Mouse]

Originally posted by Yorick: Paranoia.

Yorick, if that is your response to Earthdog's post, then you are in breach of the ToS. It's not just insulting to answer in such a dismissive one word manner, it's tantamount to flamebaiting. If you wish to participate in this thread, please refrain from such posts in future.

As for the rest of you, what I've said above applies equally to you all. Keep this debate on-topic and refrain from overt or covert personal attacks. I (and the other GD mods) have been close to shutting this topic several times, but have allowed it to carry on. However, if it descends into childish namecalling, action will be taken.

You have been warned.

[Earthdog]

Ill deny the fact that Im paranoid about eating zucchini unless you put a gun to my head [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Earthdog: In the American Civil War it was brother versus brother. They fought for what they believed in. It could happen again. But by removing the right to bear arms you take away the right to fight for what you believe in. You eventually lose anything you consider a right. Speech, religion. They all become memories. Step out of line and big brother comes to take you away.

This is by far the most ridiculous thing I've read in a while. "But by removing the right to bear arms you take away the right to fight for what you believe in." Say what? I'm actually quite happy with the ban on firearms for civilians in my own country (The Netherlands), I'm in the happy circumstances that I can fight for what I believe in without using weapons, but by words; and I also believe in the pacifistic way of settling differences.
WTF do weapons have to do with "fighting for what you believe in" anyways? Who's more right then? The person with the biggest gun?
You're sketching exactly the kind of atmosphere I'm glad doesn't exist over here in my country. That you actually need guns just in case you need it to push a point (which is what you are saying, basically)... You're making it sound like you live in a constant cold war with whoever disagrees with you... You call that a life?
I may not bear any firearms, but the way you are portraying it, I'm only more glad that I don't. If the right with bearing firearms comes with the kind of paranoid situation in which you actually think you will need those guns sooner or later and have them closeby because you think you will need them to "fight for what you believe in", I'm sooo happy that I don't live in a similar situation.
Actually, I think you just made me feel glad I live in the Netherlands and not in the US. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Earthdog]

Fair enough. Im glad you dont live there either. For that matter I dont live there right now either. Ill be back in a few years but thats another story, another topic. If you dont have the right to possess firearms and youre ok with it thats fine by me. As an American , I do have the right to possess them. Someone trying tell me that want to take that right away is what im NOT ok with. I dont care if you dont want them but I dont want anyone trying to take mine. What Im sick of, as an American, is the government making or changing laws for its own convenience. Go back to what I said about showerheads. Thats not a joke. I actually saw them debating on the House floor, potential showerhead laws. The Gentelman From Wyoming summed it up nicely.

"Mister Speaker. I dont even know why we are discussing this. This is rediculous. There is a population of about 375,000 in my state. To tell these people OUR GOVERMENT doesnt like their showerheards is an EMBARRASSMENT. We should concern ourselves with things that are more important like POVERTY, HOMELESSNESS, DISEASE RESEARCH, HIV REASEARCH.
Even discussing this is a waste of taxpayers money. We need to get out of Americas bedrooms, in this case bathrooms, and discuss issues that are more important. Education springs to mind. I could name a number of things, Mister Speaker, that are more worthy of our time.

Im going to go back a few pages and bring up something esle that was discussed in here. Timothy Mcveigh. He was excecuted because blew up a federal building killing 900??? People. Im GLAD that bastards dead. But I know why he did it. Most people, including the ones that were talking about him, dont.

He did it because of the WHACO in WACO. David Koresh. The federal Government sent in MILITARY TROOPS against civilians. Supposedly thats against American LAW. Did it stop them???? No. They did it anyway. Who does the government have to answer to???? No one. Something you may not have realised yet is the fact that the US Government is specialists at COVER UPS. They denied the fact that when they stormed Koresh's compound that Goverment troops were shooting at anything that moved. They didnt WANT people getting out and telling their side of the story. Koresh supposedly had stolen military equipment in his possession. I know someone who reseached it extensively. They said Koresh had Permits for EVERYTHING in there. I cant say if that part is true or not but I know one thing. You buy $5,000 worth of ammunition and Uncle Sam is gonna be knockin on your door too.

Fact: when they stormed the compound Shots were fired AT it while the government tried to maintain that they NEVER fired a single shot and all gunfire came FROM the compound. Thats a load of CRAP. ALL gunfire was going AT the compound. Ive seen the infrared video of it taken from the helicopter that was patrolling the area. NO shots were fired FROM the compound.

The CS gas that they were injecting through the walls with the "special" tank combines with some other gas in a matter of minutes and becomes the same gas that some states execute people with in the gas chamber. Forgive me for not being able to remember the exact names of these compounds. Hydrochloric Gas or something like that. They didnt want people coming out. The Government MURDERED those people. Who do THEY answer to??? Who can argue with the feds???
Would they hesitate to make a coverup??? hell no. Its called C.Y.A. Cover Your Ass. They worked out what their story was going to be before they ever attacked.

Thats why Mcveigh did what he did. I COMPLETELY disagree with what he did. They Should have executed him. At least I know the WHY of what he did. I do not condone his actions in anyway. But theres you proof of not being able to fight the government on equal footing. Ya CANT. They'll kill you, your mom, and anyone who ever knew you if it suits their purposes. Without hesitation. And yeah Im now worried about me speaking my own mind and forget such a thing as being protected by the freedom of speech. Yeah right.

But we will get back to the topic. This is just an example why Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin, and the rest of our founding fathers WANTED us to be able to bear arms. TYRANNY. Sending military units and tanks against armed civilians isnt right. They would have run out of food and come out eventually. Poison gassing them isnt right either. But it sure cut down on the number of people that could argue with them.

[Grojlach]

...
Rrrrright.
Let me just repeat that I'm glad to live in a country without the constant fear you're describing here. But if I were you, I wouldn't be too upset about all that...
So instead of the good old "Ye Gads! The Russians are coming!" there's now a "Ye Gads! The Government is coming!"? Maybe people just need an enemy to focus on, an enemy to scare your kids with if they don't eat all of their sprouts...
In other words: lighten up, Earthdog. Try to live a little. Don't let the thought of the Government being a possible threat to you dictate your life in any way... You're living in a free country in which you should be safe, even if some of the disasters seem to implicate otherwise. Try and learn to have a little trust in those in charge! [img]smile.gif[/img] I don't think they're 100% trustworthy either, but such a paranoid view on the world is not healthy at all. Life isn't one big conspiracy. But the moment you think that's the case, you won't have a life at all anymore.

[ 05-26-2002, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Earthdog]

But Im really not paranoid [img]smile.gif[/img] Im not trying to incite a riot much less start a revolt [img]smile.gif[/img] the fact is we know the government ignores the laws any time it suits its own purposes. They just happen to be very good at not getting caught. Even if they do, so what??? Whats anyone going to do?? Revolt?? Yeah right. They send a few scape goats to prison, (and it happens to be like a coutry club) the public is happy justice has been served. Remember Oliver North??? Theres a case of the Fall Guy. Reagan should have done time not him. Ask me why and I'll say "I cant recall"

Was Lee Harvey Oswald the only gunman when JFK was assassintated??? I dont believe it for a minute. How about Roswell???

Ooops... Back to Guns [img]smile.gif[/img] I like to hunt and target shoot. Id never point a gun at a human unless I was in militray service or a cop. I think people should make love and not war. If a war has to start then it should be fought with martial arts and not guns. Have Joe Shmucky beat Ivan about the head and shoulders with rubber chicken. Use Whoopie Cushions for land mines... Awwwwwww look they got Johnny

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[Attalus]

Rudedawg, I won't quote your informative and excellent post, but I stand corrected on the laws of the grand and glorious Republic.