[NWN2] 101 Things that need fixing in NWN2 - Page 2

JrKASperov · 11-20-2006, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer:
...

What he said. That list is a combination of lacking real arguments, nitpicking and even lies. There are some things that need adressing (dual-wielding, anti-aliasing) but it seems to me the devs are busy dealing with these issues ASAP. Which earns a big plus in my book; when's the last time a dev cared enough about you to release a patch on day 1?

robertthebard · 11-20-2006, 09:51 AM

Cared enough, or felt like they had to in order to keep the fan base somewhat interested? Let's remember that part of that initial patch was the much maligned DM client, that still was more of a beta, than an actual client. It's all good to single out some of the reviewer's comments as nitpicky, but to call them lies? What that tells me is that if I searched the bug report threads on Bioware for this game, the only place I'd find these issues is in replies in threads by this author only? Just because you aren't having the issues, or have chosen to ignore them, doesn't mean that others aren't having them. After all, there are a lot of issues raised, and the devs are working to fix them. Lieing would mean that he was making all or part of these up. Just because you have taken the position of NWN's 2 Champion, almost to the point of I think you work for Obsidian, doesn't mean that a lot of the issues he brought up in his review need attention.

SpiritWarrior · 11-20-2006, 10:53 AM

Yes, when a patch contains core stuff it is a warning sign. Such as clients or druid spells. This is what the patch contained, multiple fixes that didn't make it to vanilla but also stuff that should have made it there also. Since when, you ask? Since Atari i'd answer.

As for the list, I am in the middle. I believe the game is good and has serious potential. But c'mon guys, we all know it is horribly unfinished in it's current state.

JrKASperov · 11-20-2006, 11:05 AM

Numbers 44, 35, 54, 48, 47, 43 and 42(starting to wonder if this guy ever talked to any of the NPC's), 24 (also note that TOEE, which was almost totally book-adherent has the best combat to date in any DnD game), 11, 4 and 3(radial menu was of no use except to cast spells and examine characters) are flat out lies.

And yes, I agree that some things suck about this game. For one, the NWN1-like areas in which you have to kill an endless string of enemies with bad spawning behaviour(suddenly popping in behind you) which are all the same, and with bad loot to b00t. (oh boy, another set of 24 bullets!) This list doesn't address the things that are really sucky, except the toolset stuff, but shows a number of things that the author of the list expected wrongly. In all the other cases, he's whinging about nothing really.

[ 11-20-2006, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: JrKASperov ]

Micah Foehammer · 11-20-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by robertthebard:
Lieing would mean that he was making all or part of these up.

I never accused him of lying. But then again, imo some of his comments which are framed as "fact" are totally subjective and do NOT conform to my experience. In addition, some of his objections make me wonder if he isn't just grasping at straws, and others make me wonder just how much of the game he has actually played.

Okay, for instance, he complains about the game's "linearity". An CRPG game HAS to have a certain degree of linearity JUST TO ADVANCE THE PLOT! And in all fairness, if you made a game totally non-linear you would people complaining about "how ridiculously tough the game is and geez, what moron designer thought it would be a good idea for a 3rd level party to walk into an ancient red dragon lair! " And then everybody would be complaining about the combat balance. lol

We obviously don't agree on the game. Fair enough. Your focus is the toolset, the dmclient and multiplayer which is fine. But have you actually played the game in single player mode? I have and I am still currently playing. In all honesty I think this game is a lot of fun. Sure there are things about it that I do not like, but none of them are show stoppers.

robertthebard · 11-20-2006, 05:23 PM

No, as I have already stated elsewhere, my poor little system won't run it at all. However, I base all my opinions on first and a half knowledge, and the things I read. I've already said that I won't comment on gameplay issues until I can actually play the game. I do, however, have a copy right here for when I can. I may not have been on the fanboy bus, but I was really looking forward to this game as well. Afterall, it's NWN's 2, and I've had a four year love affair with NWN's. There was so much I was hoping to see, and to be able to do. I took all the "We're dropping this, and that" hits that everybody else did, and I got nervous, and based on posts just here, I wasn't alone. Now it turns out that some of that concern was justified, and while I do agree that the guy is bashing, and probably reaching a bit, he does still have some valid points, and poopooing them off because they aren't related to the single player aspect of the game doesn't devalidate them. Which is ultimately the only point I was making, if you re-read my posts. To me, it's like saying that your favorite color is irrelevant, just because it isn't my favorite color. You've seen me around enough message boards, and in more than one campaign through Undermountain. I'd hope you know that I wouldn't presume to speak on things with which I have no experience, or knowledge. Remember, early on I discussed this title as a co-builder of a world for 2 that has had to proceed w/out me. I still get regular updates, and discuss aspects of the game with my partner in crime. So while I have no actual hours involved in game play, I do have countless hours discussing aspects of the toolset/DM client with my partner, all on messenger, not to mention a few screenshots of things in game.
I also want to add that I think we don't disagree on the game so much as disagree about which parts of it were important. Hey bro', we've disagreed about things like this before, and continue to be able to discuss them. I hope you can see where I am coming from. My perspective is colored, per force, by the fact that I was to be helping build another successful online module, as I have helped with one in NWN's. Fates has been up for four years, and I have built areas, done scripts, written backstories, and created plot items for that world. As you can see, the toolset is an integral part of how I play NWN's, not to mention some of the cool scripts that I've worked on for Undermountain, some of which are actually in. I wanted to create, and when I get the PC together that will allow me to, I'll be in up to my neck. Until then, all I can do is lament the things that were made harder than they are now, which doesn't always mean better. Peace bro'.

ZFR · 11-20-2006, 05:34 PM

I have a question for those of you who played the game. Can any of you comment on no. 92?

Quote:

92: The OC is totally Monty Haul, Swamp Farmers with +1 Weapons, Low Level Lizard Folk with Flaming/Lighting/Whatever weapons. Oh look, I found another +4 Burning Sword of Doom, toss it onto the pile we have going.

SpiritWarrior · 11-20-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZFR:
I have a question for those of you who played the game. Can any of you comment on no. 92?

quote:
92: The OC is totally Monty Haul, Swamp Farmers with +1 Weapons, Low Level Lizard Folk with Flaming/Lighting/Whatever weapons. Oh look, I found another +4 Burning Sword of Doom, toss it onto the pile we have going.

[/QUOTE]Hmmm. Yes, there is an odd abundance of unique items in the beginning. It is no worse than BG or NWN 1 IMHO other than the fact they've taken to adding unique-er properties rather than just + w/e bonuses. I was a bit surprised to get that flaming morningstar weapon so early (in BG etc, you'd get weapons like this toward the middle) but it doesn't happen often enough to hurt the balance and IMHO is a nice, fair reward when it does.

Luvian · 11-20-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZFR:
I have a question for those of you who played the game. Can any of you comment on no. 92?

quote:
92: The OC is totally Monty Haul, Swamp Farmers with +1 Weapons, Low Level Lizard Folk with Flaming/Lighting/Whatever weapons. Oh look, I found another +4 Burning Sword of Doom, toss it onto the pile we have going.

[/QUOTE]He's definitely exaggerating. There is the Lizard king that has a pretty powerful Flaming Morningstar +1 that does an extra 1d6 or fire damage. That that one is overpowered for when you get it, but beside it things are ok.

I don't remember seeing any farmer with a magic weapon, but even then, it's possible that they could have had the sword for generations. As long as it's not everyone that has them, I'm ok with it.

To have an idea of power level, I'm level 10, and most of my characters are still using level 1 weapons mostly. I'm just starting to find more powerful items. I just found a +2 shortbow, +3 rapier and +2 longsword in the last dungeon I did, and my main character has a +2 named greatsword.

You do see lots of powerful items for sale by most merchants, but they cost a fortune and I couldn't afford them.

JrKASperov · 11-21-2006, 02:43 AM

Another lie?

11-20-2006, 09:51 AM	#12
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 60 Posts: 4,537	Cared enough, or felt like they had to in order to keep the fan base somewhat interested? Let's remember that part of that initial patch was the much maligned DM client, that still was more of a beta, than an actual client. It's all good to single out some of the reviewer's comments as nitpicky, but to call them lies? What that tells me is that if I searched the bug report threads on Bioware for this game, the only place I'd find these issues is in replies in threads by this author only? Just because you aren't having the issues, or have chosen to ignore them, doesn't mean that others aren't having them. After all, there are a lot of issues raised, and the devs are working to fix them. Lieing would mean that he was making all or part of these up. Just because you have taken the position of NWN's 2 Champion, almost to the point of I think you work for Obsidian, doesn't mean that a lot of the issues he brought up in his review need attention. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Good Music: Here. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

11-20-2006, 10:53 AM	#13
SpiritWarrior Jack Burton Join Date: May 31, 2002 Location: Ireland Posts: 5,854	Yes, when a patch contains core stuff it is a warning sign. Such as clients or druid spells. This is what the patch contained, multiple fixes that didn't make it to vanilla but also stuff that should have made it there also. Since when, you ask? Since Atari i'd answer. As for the list, I am in the middle. I believe the game is good and has serious potential. But c'mon guys, we all know it is horribly unfinished in it's current state. __________________ Still I feel like a child when I look at the moon, maybe I grew up a little too soon...

11-20-2006, 11:05 AM	#14
JrKASperov Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: July 16, 2003 Location: Wa\'eni\'n Age: 38 Posts: 1,701	Numbers 44, 35, 54, 48, 47, 43 and 42(starting to wonder if this guy ever talked to any of the NPC's), 24 (also note that TOEE, which was almost totally book-adherent has the best combat to date in any DnD game), 11, 4 and 3(radial menu was of no use except to cast spells and examine characters) are flat out lies. And yes, I agree that some things suck about this game. For one, the NWN1-like areas in which you have to kill an endless string of enemies with bad spawning behaviour(suddenly popping in behind you) which are all the same, and with bad loot to b00t. (oh boy, another set of 24 bullets!) This list doesn't address the things that are really sucky, except the toolset stuff, but shows a number of things that the author of the list expected wrongly. In all the other cases, he's whinging about nothing really. [ 11-20-2006, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: JrKASperov ] __________________ God is in the rain.

11-20-2006, 05:23 PM	#16
robertthebard Xanathar Thieves Guild Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Wichita, KS USA Age: 60 Posts: 4,537	No, as I have already stated elsewhere, my poor little system won't run it at all. However, I base all my opinions on first and a half knowledge, and the things I read. I've already said that I won't comment on gameplay issues until I can actually play the game. I do, however, have a copy right here for when I can. I may not have been on the fanboy bus, but I was really looking forward to this game as well. Afterall, it's NWN's 2, and I've had a four year love affair with NWN's. There was so much I was hoping to see, and to be able to do. I took all the "We're dropping this, and that" hits that everybody else did, and I got nervous, and based on posts just here, I wasn't alone. Now it turns out that some of that concern was justified, and while I do agree that the guy is bashing, and probably reaching a bit, he does still have some valid points, and poopooing them off because they aren't related to the single player aspect of the game doesn't devalidate them. Which is ultimately the only point I was making, if you re-read my posts. To me, it's like saying that your favorite color is irrelevant, just because it isn't my favorite color. You've seen me around enough message boards, and in more than one campaign through Undermountain. I'd hope you know that I wouldn't presume to speak on things with which I have no experience, or knowledge. Remember, early on I discussed this title as a co-builder of a world for 2 that has had to proceed w/out me. I still get regular updates, and discuss aspects of the game with my partner in crime. So while I have no actual hours involved in game play, I do have countless hours discussing aspects of the toolset/DM client with my partner, all on messenger, not to mention a few screenshots of things in game. I also want to add that I think we don't disagree on the game so much as disagree about which parts of it were important. Hey bro', we've disagreed about things like this before, and continue to be able to discuss them. I hope you can see where I am coming from. My perspective is colored, per force, by the fact that I was to be helping build another successful online module, as I have helped with one in NWN's. Fates has been up for four years, and I have built areas, done scripts, written backstories, and created plot items for that world. As you can see, the toolset is an integral part of how I play NWN's, not to mention some of the cool scripts that I've worked on for Undermountain, some of which are actually in. I wanted to create, and when I get the PC together that will allow me to, I'll be in up to my neck. Until then, all I can do is lament the things that were made harder than they are now, which doesn't always mean better. Peace bro'. __________________ To those we have lost; May your spirits fly free. Good Music: Here. Interesting read, one of my blogs.

11-21-2006, 02:43 AM	#20
JrKASperov Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: July 16, 2003 Location: Wa\'eni\'n Age: 38 Posts: 1,701	Another lie? __________________ God is in the rain.

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