Smoking Ban

[harleyquinn]

Well, I live in upstate NY where there are LOTS of poolhalls, bars, and such with no smoking anymore and guess what, they not only don't appear to be hurting, but they look to have more business then ever. Lots of these places are now crowded. The smokers aren't leaving (they go outside for a cig) and the non-smokers are coming when they weren't before because now they won't smell like smoke. I'm not saying this is the case all over, I'm just presenting a case where it doesn't appear that the ban is hurting business at all.

[wellard]

It’s been the law down here for a while, and after the first few months of uproar and down turn in trade, the pubs and restaurants are full and everyone is happy and just accepts the rule.

My kid has asthma. Trust me you will not want to smoke near him. It WILL be a hazard to your health. And NO I will not be tying him up outside a cafe. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img]
That area is reserved for addicts.

[img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img] I absolutely detest cig. smoke. I think it should be banned from public places...like food courts at the mall and basicly in the mall itself....BUT....I do not believe the state or federal government has the authority to make the rules for privately owned establishments. If a Bar owner wants to attract the smoking crowd that is up to him and how he wants to run his business. I think NYC and other places that Ba smoking from private establishments is overstepping their bounds.

[ 05-08-2003, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by wellard: It’s been the law down here for a while, and after the first few months of uproar and down turn in trade, the pubs and restaurants are full and everyone is happy and just accepts the rule. Have to disagree with you here Wellard, not everyone is happy...anyone who is for personal liberty and private ownership is sad, and every smoker is now definately unhappy. My kid has asthma. Trust me you will not want to smoke near him. It WILL be a hazard to your health. And NO I will not be tying him up outside a cafe. [img]graemlins/heee.gif[/img] Umm you shouldn't be taking your kid into bars dude That area is reserved for addicts.

[wellard]

Magik

What is with your aversion to governments making laws? That is what they exist for. Knowing the law is constant in the state means I can go into any food court or cafe and relax knowing that my kid is not going to be assaulted by smokers. We would also be free from the situation where you go into the cafe and there are no smokers, you order and start to eat just for some selfish addict to come in and start spreading his cancer!

Without the law being there, it is pot luck on the smoker having his day really ruined a government law means that they *smokers* can be gathered outside, bonding in their self help groups in safety from non addicts, So it is in the smokers best interest too. A fact often overlooked in discussions.

regulations allow for cosistancy

[ 05-08-2003, 08:45 AM: Message edited by: wellard ]

[Thoran]

I live in NY, which used to allow smoking and non-smoking sections in resteraunts... I didn't even realize how much nicer it was to eat in a full non-smoking resteraunt until I spent a year in LA. I'm glad they've eliminated smoking from resteraunts, however I too tend to think that Bars and Pubs are for drinking and smoking both and banning it from those sorts of establishments is going overboard.

Here in Upstate I'm sure you'll just see every bar with a smoking tent out back, but in the city I suspect it could be tough on smokers.

Originally posted by wellard: Magik What is with your aversion to governments making laws? That is what they exist for. Knowing the law is constant in the state means I can go into any food court or cafe and relax knowing that my kid is not going to be assaulted by smokers. We would also be free from the situation where you go into the cafe and there are no smokers, you order and start to eat just for some selfish addict to come in and start spreading his cancer! It also means that Smokers (who happen to be people with rights too) and private business owners are not free to enjoy themselves. I agree in areas where public traffic is the norm...like food courts and most restauraunts yeah its ok for the owners to ban smoking...but in bars and pool halls...if the owner wants to eprmit that in his establishment it is not the place of government to tell them no. The purpose of government is NOT to make laws. Like it or not, Government in the United states is supposed to be a rather limited thing....just because the officials have been subverting the constitution and granting themselves power, does not make it right....or just. We are also supposed to be free from the tyranny of the majority in this country. Private establishments should be free to decide on what clientell they want to cater to...not told who they can cater to. Without the law being there, it is pot luck on the smoker having his day really ruined a government law means that they *smokers* can be gathered outside, bonding in their self help groups in safety from non addicts, So it is in the smokers best interest too. A fact often overlooked in discussions. regulations allow for cosistancy Again I have no problem with the ban in public places, it is whne you infringe on the rights of private citizens and establishments is when my hackles get ruffled.

Originally posted by Thoran: I live in NY, which used to allow smoking and non-smoking sections in resteraunts... I didn't even realize how much nicer it was to eat in a full non-smoking resteraunt until I spent a year in LA. I'm glad they've eliminated smoking from resteraunts, however I too tend to think that Bars and Pubs are for drinking and smoking both and banning it from those sorts of establishments is going overboard. Here in Upstate I'm sure you'll just see every bar with a smoking tent out back, but in the city I suspect it could be tough on smokers. Smoking tent...what next? the back of the bus and seperate water fountains? I hate smoke, am allergic to it but I am for individuals freedom on private property too [img]smile.gif[/img]

[wellard]

If I could try and find some common ground between us.


If a bar is open to the public (thats why they are called pubs) then no, they should not cater to the minority smokers. However if the bar is private (a club) then I am with you 100%. Smoke, dress, include exclude whatever. As long as the rules are clear and consistently applied I see no problem.

But the goverment should legaslate to protect people in public places, including shops or offices where the public have a reasonable chance of being in or access too, from the lack of manners of a very small but vocal minority group. Its a shame governments are forced to enable laws that common decancy should cater for, but thats people.

there are laws about spitting in the streets, its disgusting, spreads disease and is frowned upon in public. I wonder if there was the same uproar when the government brought in that law?

[ 05-08-2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: wellard ]

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by harleyquinn: Well, I live in upstate NY where there are LOTS of poolhalls, bars, and such with no smoking anymore and guess what, they not only don't appear to be hurting, but they look to have more business then ever. Lots of these places are now crowded. The smokers aren't leaving (they go outside for a cig) and the non-smokers are coming when they weren't before because now they won't smell like smoke. I'm not saying this is the case all over, I'm just presenting a case where it doesn't appear that the ban is hurting business at all.

It's how I've seen things in the upstate area too, Harley. This is a very controversial subject in NY and pretty much anywhere I'd imagine!

I won't say the new law bothers me because I am very allergic to smoke and am prone to bronchitis (doctors say it's probably because my dad chain smoked around me when I was a kid).

No offense intended to anyone here, but sometimes I find myself wondering if most die-hard 'we demand our right to smoke anywhere' smokers really have any understanding of what it's like for others who have to inhale their smoke and especially for those with allergies, asthma, etc. It's hell on wheels for me. Even a short exposure can leave me stuffed up, congested and with my eyes burning for hours AFTER leaving the area.

I used to just tolerate this for years, being miserable in silence, but in the last 10 yrs I've been able to politely reply to "Do you mind if I smoke?" with "I'm sorry, but I do. I'm allergic so could you please not do it near me?" Most people are very nice when you ask them politely! I've had a few grumble but like I said, the vast majority have either been very understanding or at least very well mannered! [img]smile.gif[/img]

So I can't say the law bothers me, personally. I haven't been in a bar in about 20 or so years BECAUSE of the smoke, so heck, I might actually go into one now. And as Harleyquin said, it does look like business is picking up in pool halls and the like around here.