To ascend or not to ascend?

[CerebroDragon]

That is the question
Whether tis nobler to suffer the sling's and arrows of outrageous Scabbanian evil...or....by a sea of elemental flamestrikes, end them!

Or something like that!

After being awestruck with surprise at the novelty of acquiring my own trusty steed (yet to be named), I've just been enjoying a traipsing dilly trot accross the land! Going swimming on horseback is also jolly fun!

After stumbling upon the Toad Village, as Ukabu, I entered and did the quest to cleanse the toadem, but not after a very good entertaining fight - probably the biggest test for my humble level 6 party yet. I'm dreading the Serpent Temple, which shall be my next investigation. Finding it will be an adventure in itself! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Which brings me to a general question possibly covered in the Best Tips section, but as a general inquiry to all experienced players who read the W&W forums: At what particular level should one start to Ascend in roles?
I'm curious as to whether it matters if one didn't ascend until at least level 10 or something, which is what i'm considering. Or should one not hold off and make the role choices as quick as possible? (i.e when its affordable)
These kinds of questions make the character development aspect of this game very intriguing indeed! I'm cautious as to not ascend too hastily and yet not leave it until deep into the plot of the game.

Well, time to find the Serpent Temple via another visit to the Crypt for the Sword of Mastus, methinks! [img]smile.gif[/img]

I've really enjoyed reading the W&W forums thus far, its adding a nice friendly ingredient to an already pleasurable adventuring experience! Cheers all! [img]smile.gif[/img]

CerebroDragon
++==UDIC==++

P.S:
Incidentally, those spiders near the windmill are freakishly horrid!
I'd hate to encounter too many of those at night time!

[Bungleau]

Ah... the second most-asked question, after "How do I get into this !#$%!#$^ crypt?"...

Simple answer: When you feel like it.

Medium answer: When there's something to be gained from increasing the level.

Long answer: Well.....

... I keep wizards in their roles until they've got the level 7 spells I want. You can't learn the level 7 spells again until you're a native caster of that spell school (like samurai for sun) or a warlock or zenmaster. That usually means around level 12-14.

... Priests... same story, except vine and spirit are more common spell schools. I worry less about moving them out, but I don't do it until they've got Cure Poison (for reasons which will become evident soon) or perhaps the level 7 spells again. That usually means around level 8-10.

...Rogues... doesn't matter much, really. They can't switch until you hit Ishad N'ha-ha-ha, so they will be there a while. Get that traps and locks skill up high or you'll regret it later on... [img]smile.gif[/img]

Warriors... ASAP, I try to get to barbarian. Same beefy meat-shield killing machine, but more HP and the chance to pick up some other skills. And the 20 kills can include roaches... but you'd be amazed how hard they are to kill. Almost like real life [img]tongue.gif[/img]

After the initial level up, switch when you've gotten target skills. For example, I stay a ranger until I get Fletchery.

There are no wrong answers... only choices. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[bsftcs]

I can answer the question in a manner much shorter. Namely: read Bungleau's post above. He knows what he is talking about.

As for your sturdy steed yet to be named. Did you know that the palfreys of the Gael Serran are of a very particular breed. So particular, in fact, that they can breathe under water, and as such are very well suited for water polo.

One can ride these steeds to Toad Village and through the tunnel leading to Ishad N'ha if one likes. A pity there are no horses in the Brimloch Roon area. They would be much more suited for traversing the seas than a ship.

Edit/

Oh and by the way, Mr. Shakespeare, there might be something rotten in the state of Denmark, but it is certainly not that wondeful new crown princess which you Aussies have been so kind as to provide us with. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-25-2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: bsftcs ]

[Radek]

When to change role? The simple answer is: "when you see that gaining levels in the old role will not bring you any new advantage". The long answer is: "well, you will need a good optics and you will have to be sure that gaining levels in the old role is worthless" [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Some things that need to be taken into account.

1. Magic schools: Each role (except a barbarian, a warrior, and a rogue) has its natural magic schools. We will call the rest of magic schools foreign magic schools. The difference between natural and foreign magic schools consists in the ability to learn new spells.
You can gain new spells up to level

min( character_level, magic_school_level )

if the corresponding magic school is your natural magic school.
You can gain new spells up to level

min( character_level, magic_school_level/2 )

if the corresponding magic school is foreign for you.

The magic_school_level is your "...craft" skill level. For example, Suncraft for sun spells.

The natural magic schools for the roles:

mage - sun and stone
priest - vine and spirit
paladin - spirit
ranger - vine
barbarian - none
monk - spirit
ninja - moon
warlock - all
bard - moon
assassin - fiend and moon
valkyrie - spirit and stone
zenmaster - all

Consequences:
a) The highest skill level is 12 (except for a zenmaster but a zenmaster has all magic schools as natural ones). Therefore, you cannot gain level 7 spells in a foreign magic school - you would need skill level 14 for it.
b) When you change a role, your natural magic schools will change as well. Therefore, do not change role until you gain all needed level 7 spells in the magic schools which are natural for you now but which become foreign for you after role changing.

2. Keep in mind that you can gain each role only once. You can regain a role only after Reset Adventures. Changing a role needs a bit planning.

3. Guild levels. Some important traits are available only for certain roles. Namely:

Fletchery - only a ranger, Warriors Guild, guild level 5 trait
Crusade - only a paladin, the Temple, guild level 5 trait
Stunning Blow - only a barbarian, Warriors Guild, guild level 5 trait
Chi Master - only a zenmaster, Bushi Dojo, guild level 6(?) trait, needs character level 12(?)
Enlightement - only a zenmaster, Bushi Dojo, guild level 6 trait, needs character level 18
Iron Lung - only a bard or a barbarian, Pawn Shop, guild level 5 trait. Not too critical: there is a ring in the game which contains the trait as well, therefore, you can gain the trait even if you aren't a bard or a barbarian.
Tiger Strike - only a zenmaster(?), Bushi Dojo, guild level 4 trait
Spirit Shield - only a zenmaster(?), Bushi Dojo. The trait does not work in an unpatched game.

Consequences:
a) Plan your role changes taking into account the traits above. If you want the Fletchery trait for a particular character then the character must be a ranger and he must be guild level 5 in the Warriors Guild. Therefore, the character should become a ranger later in the game.

[LiOnHe@rT]

every 2nd level class has their own benefits, so if u think u want to continue a role, such as warrior to barbarian or paladin, juz go ahead. nobody will stop you, and as bungleau said : "There are no wrong answers..." (wow! so cool!!! )
naturally, you are advised to ascend every other role and leave the most desired role to the last, such as warlocks for spell-casters, and barbarians (if u want to) for fighters.
hope this helps............

[moiraine sedai]

Originally posted by bsftcs: Oh and by the way, Mr. Shakespeare, there might be something rotten in the state of Denmark, but it is certainly not that wondeful new crown princess which you Aussies have been so kind as to provide us with. [img]smile.gif[/img]

She sure is a looker, eh?

Cerebrodragon, your question has been more than well answered by the capable members of this forum. However, one thing not covered much was the roleplaying side of it: advancing when it feels like your character wants a change, instead of you. Perhaps the wizard would be eager to become a warlock, to gain more spell schools? Maybe the priest feels he would be more able to aid and protect people if he became a paladin? It could be as basic as your warrior liking the wilderness, thus intending to become a ranger.

The advancement of your characters can sometimes be set out already if you are using a 'themed' party, such as a Lord of the Rings party (eg warrior to ranger, for Legolas)

But finally, it's your choice, and remember that you don't have to stay in your new class if you don't like it; you can change to another one, but you can't go back to ANY of your former ones, unless you reset adventures.

Glad to hear that you're enjoying the game! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Keep us posted as to how your adventures go, and feel free to ask questions, even if you think they're stupid. I did.

Cheers,

Moiraine Sedai
[img]graemlins/matrix.gif[/img]

[kev]

Bungleau has said what I would have said but in a much more ala ella elquent better manner.
What nobody has said is that it is easier to levelup & thus to train when you are at lower levels. This means that it is worthwhile to change roles at an early stage if you have the cash to train in the guilds.
Another reason to change roles is to pick up a role that is covered by another guild so that you can join & train in more than 1 guild at a time.
If you are able to train in all guilds you charactor will progress much faster.
The things to remember before you change is to make sure that you get everything that you can out of the role first. You can not go back to that role after you have left it.
The barbarian role is an important one to get as many hitpoints as possible. You should try to become a barbarian early & stay for as long as possible to acrue the most hitpoints. Bungleau has an equation somewhere that proves this. If you have already been a level 20 at a role you dont benefit from being a barbarian until you pass that level 20.
This & all the previous posts have probably utterly confused you. Just remember that there are many "right" ways to advance your charactors.

[CerebroDragon]

Ahhh, Erzebette, shall I compare thee to a a Summer's day? Thou art more lovely and temperate...oops! Excuse me!

Whey! Incredibly detailed and varied replies! Thanks very much for the prompt feedback everyone, its provided much food for thought which I'm currently still slowly digesting.

After completing the Serpent Temple with all my characters at about level 9, I'm still yet to ascend any of my characters, but I think I'll do my first once as soon as Bavvok, my Gourke warrior has reached level 10. He has expressed a desire to follow his primitive instinctualpast and so I'll gladly see him upon the Barbarian path with only one prescence point left to qualify. (Thanks to Moirane for the kindly reminder about listening to the role playing voices!)

I'll write in again as soon as the other paths for my other five characters have become more illumined! My Wizard, Vigamortis has whispered a yearning to harness magic from all schools and ascend to Warlockhood, but his enthsiasm may be a bit premature,as he still has some statistics to earn.

The Temple was an exhausting but laregely exhilarating affair, it took at least four or five breaks from the game to search the forum archives to read how other players have dealt with the situations. The sense of involvement and humour in many of the old threads has made it all jolly fun indeed!

Well, methinks its Onward Bound! To me, submarine-steed Chester!

P.S: @ Bsftcs....forgive me for being ignorant kind sir, but who is this crowned princess of which you speak? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[bsftcs]

Originally posted by CerebroDragon: P.S: @ Bsftcs....forgive me for being ignorant kind sir, but who is this crowned princess of which you speak? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ah CerebroDragon, my noble friend. 'Tis I who kindly thank you for giving me the opportunity to expatiate upon this subject which has occupied the minds of a great many Danes in recent days, and also, so I have been made aware, the colums of a number of Australian newspapers.

The crown princess I have been refering to is the lovely Tasmanian Mary Elizabeth Donaldson who the day before yesterday officially became engaged to be married to the Danish heir to the throne, His Royal Highness Crown Prince Frederik.

It is my believe that she will make an excellent Queen Mary, that she will be adored by the Danish people, and that she will bear a wonderful new batch of small princes and princesses to the Danish Royal House. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 09-27-2003, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: bsftcs ]

[CerebroDragon]

I simply had to do some research into this new phenomenon within the Danish monarchy. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I don't read newspapers as often as I used to since getting the 'net, so cheers for the info!

http://www.hkhkronprinsen.dk/62000c

Mary Donaldson's credentials make nice reading!

Mmm, yes, quite right, quite right. Lovely dreamy eyes!

But does the Danish monarchy stir up as much scandal and silliness that the British one does? We're currently putting up with a visit from Prince Harry and the Pap-a-nazi's are going typically bezerk. The rationality of such a fuss over every day human beings is sort of lost on me. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

But good on you Mary! May ye prosper and continue the spread of Danish and Australian genes!

[ 09-28-2003, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]