Egg On My Bard's Face?

[jmsteven]

I'm aware that these games are based on PnP 2nd Ed. Dungeons & Dragons (which I've never played and am not very familiar with except through CRPG). If any Bard fans know, I'm curious why Bards were created as subclass of Rogues since, historically, the Celtic Bards were a subclass of Druid priests. A friend's older brother had a copy of 1st ed. AD&D Player's Handbook, and the Bard was listed in an appendix as an optional class, but wasn't a rogue subclass.

In the game, Bards primarily cast mage spells and there are several Bard/Mage-only items. It seems that, if anything, Bards should be a subclass of Mages. The only similarity between Bards and Thieves is their pickpockets ability, but using that logic Rangers actually seem more rogue-like than Bards, since rangers have stealth and there are a lot of Ranger/Thief-only specialty items in the game. The literary model for the Ranger seems to be from Tolkein, but Aragorn didn't cast spells or dual-wield. I think the Ranger should have been fighters with stealth and given find/remove traps (but no spells). The Thief should have been be the only character with pickpockets. And Bards would have their songs, but use Druid spells instead of Mage spells.

[ 10-25-2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: jmsteven ]

[NobleNick]

In the game, Bards primarily cast mage spells and there are several Bard/Mage-only items. It seems that, if anything, Bards should be a subclass of Mages. The only similarity between Bards and Thieves is their pickpockets ability

Good questions.

In IWD/HoW, **MY** Bard spends 98% of her time singing. And the songs she sings have almost exclusively Cleric-like properties.

I wonder if Lore ability is considered Rogue-like?

Looks like the Bard was truly crafted to be a jack of all trades.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[jmsteven]

SPOILERS BELOW...

Originally posted by NobleNick: I wonder if Lore ability is considered Rogue-like?

I wouldn't think so, otherwise thieves would have great lore, too. It seems like a purely "bardic" ability.

Personally, I like bards and was considering soloing with one except they can't fight or heal very well. Having low HP and not being able to use some of the better armor, helms, and shields in the game doesn't help either.

I guess maybe if the bard were equipped with Rogues Cowl, Baleful Mail, and Messenger of Sseth, it would help...but not enough to make him my soloist of choice; unless of course you can convince me otherwise...

[ZFR]

I believe bards while being one of the best classes in a party are one of the worst for soloing... Like NobleNick says their greatest ability is singing and that simply won't help while soloing. Same goes for a rogue (pure class) who while being a good support character cant do well soloing.

[Azred]

I use my bard specifically to take a lot of pressure off the clerics since the War Chant regenerates health. Although I don't use bards in BG or BG2, I wouldn't create a party for IWD that didn't include one. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I use Siren's Yearning much of the time, also. Depending upon the enemies facing us, we either gang up on whoever is enthralled or ignore them for later.

[Aerich]

Bards are Rogues in their approach to life and wandering lifestyle, not just for their attributes. In 2nd ed. D&D they also had 4 out of the 8 possible thief skills. They also didn't get the bardic songs - well, they got one approximating Siren's Yearning, but that's about it.

And, not that I've done it myself, but apparently bards are quite good for soloing. Not in and of themselves, but combine the Horn of Valhalla with War Chant of the Sith...

Apparently you can also gain control of the berserkers (Quicksave then Quickload).