IWD 1 Thief/Mage DC or MC?

[Raffin]

I'm curious what people's views on this are. I'm planning out a new HoF-from-scratch-with-HoW-and-Trials-Of-Luremaster run through, and wondering whether to take a dual class or multiclass thief/mage.

Yes, I know, it's not the strongest class, but I want some trap disarming and lock opening, and it's the easiest way. My party:

Paladin (tank and healing)
Bard (songs, backup mage early on)
Ranger/Cleric multiclass (AoE, tank, summons)
Fighter/Druid multiclass (ditto above)
single class evil cleric (early animate dead)

and either a mage/thief multiclass or a thief 6 or 9 -> mage dualclass.

The character would not do much fighting, so THACO and HP aren't real considerations. Leveling up is easy in HoF, and it would take away the extreme annoyance of having three levels of empty spell slots (3rd-5th) for a large chunk of time if I did DC.

I'm curious if anyone sees a disadvantage to DC in this case?

And, yes, I know, FMT is another option, but I'd rather not...levels coming so slowly...

Anyway, DC or MC?

-Raffin

[ZFR]

Problem with DC you will spend some time without your thief skills.

And if your playing HoF F/M/T levels will not be coming too slowly. In fact they will still be coming too fast!!!
I'm playing a FMT on HoF right now and my mage is still too high ahead in levels. i.e he has level for which he has no scrolls. It is really no use level-upping your mage very fast and having him be level able to cast level 8 if all he can find are level 3 scrolls. And that is a problem you will be facing if DCing.

I'd go for FMT. If you still insist on not, I'd take MC over DC.

[Kyrvias]

With HoF, multiclass is the way to go.

Like ZFR said, what's the use of casting 8th level spells when the highest you have is 3?

If only sorcerers were in Icewind Dale...

[Aerich]

Perhaps bucking the trend here, I don't see a dc in this situation to be inferior to the mc. The mc definitely has the advantage in the sense that you don't have to plan your levelling and in that you can have a very high level thief. However, with your party setup and the role you envision for the character, I'd go for the dc. You have a bard to take care of pocket-picking and backup mage duties, and you do not have a dedicated mage.

You will be able to hit lvl 11 thief before the end of the Vale of Shadows, which should be plenty of levels to cover the necessary thief skills for the rest of the game. It should go without saying that because you have a bard, the thief should not put any skill points into Pick Pockets, but should max out the other skills (FRT and OL before Stealth). That should give you plenty of time to hit lvl 12 mage and regain thief skills before lvl 5 of Dragon's Eye. If you don't max out stealth, there's plenty of helpful items for that, and if you don't max out FRT or OL, Tymora's Melody (bard song at lvl 5) will improve your percentages.

The relatively high level dual class means you won't have too many spell slots sitting empty, but also means your mage will progress faster, which is not to be despised in the mid-game. You may also wish to consider dualing your thief into a specialist caster for the additional spell slots to make a better bomber.

[ 11-19-2006, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[Ultra Marine]

Hi....
A dc t>m is the way to go. Don't need pick pocket & thief fighting skills or hide in shadows. Get 90% in both find traps & open locks then boost to 100% with items and dex spells. Therefore, a level 8 thief will do, then dual to mage. I think that's somewhere before entering the tomb.

Invisibility is much better than hide in shadows.

There is a open lock spell for really hard ones.

The mage is the only one which takes 7million (i think) to max level. So it makes sense to dc rather than mc.

[Kyrvias]

Realistically, in HoF, you'll be leveling faster than all get out. In the twon of Easthaven alone is, even for 6 characters, at least level 4 for single class, lower for multi.

This is an exageration, but having a mage being able to cast 8th level spells before the vale of shadows means he/she will only find up to 3rd level spells. And there's never too many points invested in find traps

Multi all the way.

[Ultra Marine]

hmmm... True also.
I've always play a F/M or a F/M/T when i have a bard in the party. If i don't have a bard then dc T>M reason being spell bonus due to higher level mage like skull traps.

I won't do a T/M in Hof. The thief skills maxes out quick and a T/M just can't tank compared to a F/I.

[Roboghost]

Here be my input (since I'm back to doing this game for now):

Currently running an Elf MC M/T myself. I take the Elf for the bow (Elf plus the 19 DEX) and their high charm resistances. I give just about all spells to him and leftovers go to my Bard (except the Shadow Monster spells - these work best with the bard who levels up fast.)

Despite getting spell slots that can't be used, the mage leveling up is important for spells that are level dependent! They last longer and hurt more. Eventually when you do get higher spells -- you'll have lots of slots to pound the baddies with. They [MC] do get ripped compared to a DC for HPs though.

Don't forget that the thief class can dodge [setting dependent] some spells -- kind of handy when duking it out with a fellow mage. It also works on avoiding some traps you forget to snoop for and stumble across [I did this (being in a hurry) on a couple of those "ice" traps in HoW and dodged them both since my T/M was way up there in levels.]

Finally, a MC T/M gets a slight bit more advantage using his/her bow [THAC0] way down the level line as well (compared to a DC.) Yes, a F/M/T is better for bow, but they don't have the mage power or thief skills like a M/T early on. I'm careful to have other ranged weapons skills that help me along. Having two strong [fighter] priests can do a good job with the sling. Get two tanks up to speed as an axe thrower and a bow plucker and your set.

Team [weapons in order of skill point focus]:
Human Paladin (Mace / Bow / L Sword / Flail / Axe / G Sword / ?)
Gnome Fighter (Axe / Mace / Crossbow) [I bought throwing axes for a while]
Dwarf F/C (Hammer / Missile / Flail / Mace)
H-E F/D (Dagger / Missile / L Sword / Club)
H-E Bard (...)
Elf M/T (Bow.)

Ultimately, I find not having a mage and good thief early on (even with a bard) is a pain in HoF mode. He/She helps keep things moving along without too much frustration.