Tips/advice for battlegrounds (pref. for rogue but general comments welcome)

[Memnoch]

G'day guys, I finally checked out BGs and LOVED it! I went to WSG on level 39 rogue - first time ever and I ended up with 78 kills. We lost (apparently this is usual with alliance at WSG) but it was so much fun. Some impressions first, and then some questions:

Observations:

• our team was organised chaos. Not very much chat, no coordination, as soon as the gate opened everyone just spilled out into the BG and left our flag exposed! (it was fun though).
  
• the other team (Horde) was better organised but not that much more so - WSG is mainly for beginners I gather?
• being a rogue is GREAT in BGs as you can stealth and pick your moment to gank an unsuspecting foe - the only downside being that you often get left behind when everyone rushes forward to fight
• understanding the terrain is key to being able to quickly plan entry/exit routes into the enemy base
• my combat sword roque build worked ok, but I think my weapons were a bit underpowered or my armour wasn't good enough (here is my toon: Scabandari. I did big amounts of damage initially but often I wasn't able to land the killing blow. My best chances were when someone was 1) already engaged in a fight; or 2) had already taken some damage.
• I used generally the same sequence I do in PvE - Stealth, then CS + SS + SS + SS + EVI and start all over again. I started to use Kidney Shot a bit but it didn't seem to work as well - I don't have the Improved version yet. I used Gouge a few times but my timing was a bit off. Using Sap was a waste as in battle anyone I sapped, someone else attacked anyway, ruining the Sap. I think Sap might be better for flag stealing and getting rid of one guy on D?
  
• I had to re-do my #1 Quick Cast bar to put in the stun abilities like Gouge, Kidney Shot, etc which I don't really use in PvE that much, but I ended up using in PvP. There was a problem with this though! (See below)
• Nobody communicates! It was kind of like a free-for-all.

All in all an awesome experience, way better than NWN PvP which often had major lag for me. Now the questions:

1. I initially created a PvP Quick Cast bar using my #4 Quick Cast Bar, but when I went into Stealth mode my stealth bar didn't come up - it came up with something else. I had to move my PvP bar to #1 to fix it. Anyone experience this?
2. Any suggestions on how to respond when someone puts a combined DoT and slow attack on me, which prevents me from vanishing/sprinting? Are there talents/skills/pots/scrolls further on that will address this?
3. I noticed that sometimes when hunters targetted me I had a little red arrow pointing down at my head, what is this?
4. when you guys go from PvP to PvE with the same character, do you keep on respeccing? That would get really expensive. Or do you have a separate PvP character and a PvE character?
5. Is it worth taking the time to loot insignias? I noticed it's not worth running back to rez at your corpse anyway, everyone does it at the graveyard.
6. How do I key bind stealth? I went to the Key Bindings screen but there was no option for stealth.
7. What does "capping" mean?
8. Kakero made this suggestion in my other thread: "In wsg - I'm like a shark that prey on horde that stray too far from their group. I don't care about the flag. My object is to get as many Hk as possible." - Kakero. But if we lose I only get one Mark vs 3 if we win. Doesn't this mean that I will have to play 3 times as many games because I'm just farming HKs?
9. Kakero also said this: "In Ab - I ninja the node. Nobody is guarding the mine? You bet I'll ninja it." - Kakero. What does this mean?
10. Any tips on how to maximise Stunlock using a combat swords build?

Thanks to all for their advice!

[Kakero]

Originally Posted by Memnoch G'day guys, I finally checked out BGs and LOVED it! I went to WSG on level 39 rogue - first time ever and I ended up with 78 kills. We lost (apparently this is usual with alliance at WSG) but it was so much fun. Some impressions first, and then some questions: our team was organised chaos. Not very much chat, no coordination, as soon as the gate opened everyone just spilled out into the BG and left our flag exposed! (it was fun though). the other team (Horde) was better organised but not that much more so - WSG is mainly for beginners I gather?

• Eyup! That's what you get for BGing in Alliance. WSG is a bad place to BG for an alliance since horde win 90% of the time. Try AV or EoTS as alliance fair better there.
  
  
  
  

  Originally Posted by Memnoch my combat sword roque build worked ok, but I think my weapons were a bit underpowered or my armour wasn't good enough (here is my toon: Scabandari. I did big amounts of damage initially but often I wasn't able to land the killing blow. My best chances were when someone was 1) already engaged in a fight; or 2) had already taken some damage. I used generally the same sequence I do in PvE - Stealth, then CS + SS + SS + SS + EVI and start all over again. I started to use Kidney Shot a bit but it didn't seem to work as well - I don't have the Improved version yet. I used Gouge a few times but my timing was a bit off. Using Sap was a waste as in battle anyone I sapped, someone else attacked anyway, ruining the Sap. I think Sap might be better for flag stealing and getting rid of one guy on D? I had to re-do my #1 Quick Cast bar to put in the stun abilities like Gouge, Kidney Shot, etc which I don't really use in PvE that much, but I ended up using in PvP. There was a problem with this though! (See below)

  BGing is better as a dagger/mace rogue than as a combat sword rogue. You need burst damage rather than sustain damage in a BG.
  
  One of the reason where you cannot land a killing blow is because your hit rating is too low. You need at least 5% hit rating to never miss a special attack (the ones with yellow damage).
  
  

  Originally Posted by Memnoch Nobody communicates! It was kind of like a free-for-all.

Did YOU try to communicate and organize them? Alliance is made up of kiddies (usually ) and they usually need someone to organize them. Try it and sometimes it work wonders. Don't quote me on this.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*][[*]I initially created a PvP Quick Cast bar using my #4 Quick Cast Bar, but when I went into Stealth mode my stealth bar didn't come up - it came up with something else. I had to move my PvP bar to #1 to fix it. Anyone experience this?

Not sure of the problem, since I used CTmod where it has a barmod that gave me several bars to play at once.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*][[*]Any suggestions on how to respond when someone puts a combined DoT and slow attack on me, which prevents me from vanishing/sprinting? Are there talents/skills/pots/scrolls further on that will address this?

Yes, at level 66 (I think). You can purchase a skill called cloak of shadows. This skill instantly removes all harmful spell effect such as DoTs and so on. It'll also give you a 90% spell resistance for 5 seconds.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*]I noticed that sometimes when hunters targetted me I had a little red arrow pointing down at my head, what is this?

That is called Hunter's Mark. It enable the hunter to see you even in stealth and it also increase their range damage. You can use Cloak of Shadows to remove the mark.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*]when you guys go from PvP to PvE with the same character, do you keep on respeccing? That would get really expensive. Or do you have a separate PvP character and a PvE character?

Yes, I respec from combat sword to mutilate build when i go BGing. At first the respec cost can be cheap but after several times respecing it can be quite expensive. The respec cost will max at 50 gold.

However, if you have Burning Crusade expansion. You can earn lots of gold from the Outland. Thus making the 50 gold respec cost seems like a small amount.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*]Is it worth taking the time to loot insignias? I noticed it's not worth running back to rez at your corpse anyway, everyone does it at the graveyard.

Don't bother to loot it, your main objective is to get as many honour points and kills as possible. Rez at the graveyard will give you 100% hp back. If you run back to your corpse it'll give you a small percentage of hp back.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*]What does "capping" mean?

There are several meaning to this, I assume you mean pvp sense.

When you die you opponent will stay at your corpse and will wait and wait until you rez at your corpse. Then he'll kill you again. People do this because when you rez at your corpse you will only gain a small percentage of your hp back. This makes you an easy target to kill.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*]Kakero made this suggestion in my other thread: "In wsg - I'm like a shark that prey on horde that stray too far from their group. I don't care about the flag. My object is to get as many Hk as possible." - Kakero. But if we lose I only get one Mark vs 3 if we win. Doesn't this mean that I will have to play 3 times as many games because I'm just farming HKs?

Yes, I suggest so because it's quite impossible to win as an alliance in WSG. So just try to get as much HK as possible before the game ends.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*]Kakero also said this: "In Ab - I ninja the node. Nobody is guarding the mine? You bet I'll ninja it." - Kakero. What does this mean?

In AB, since you can stealth, you can take over any unguarded nodes since nobody can see you going to the node.

Other classes have no such advantage because other people can see them going over to the node and will rush back and defend the node.

Originally Posted by Memnoch [*]Any tips on how to maximise Stunlock using a combat swords build?[/LIST]

Stunlock as a combat sword build? emm..it's hard because combat sword just don't generate combo that fast. Mutilate build is better for stunlocking. But if you insist a combat sword one..

cs+ss+ks+ss+ss+blind+vanish+sap+cs+ss+ks+ss+ss+eva

If the opponent isn't dead by the evascerate. Then good luck!

[Marty4]

I don't play a rogue so I can't give you specific rogue advice. However, as a paladin and a priest who plays a lot with rogue friends and a fan of rogue PvP videos, I can tell you what I like in a rogue ally.

First off, try watching skilled rogues who've made videos. My personal favorite, and one that many consider to be among the best rogues ever, is Grim. Search "Grim Total Annihilation" for his last video to get a good example of how the best of the best like to operate. Plus, it is pretty entertaining.

As for battlegrounds, embrace your strengths while avoiding your weaknesses. Go after the clothies, don't worry about the meatshields. A well-placed sap before your group assaults a node can turn the tide very effectively, as does a lightning-fast assassination of a priest or mage.

Identify who in your battleground is skilled, then stick to them like glue. If I see a good rogue or warrior in a battleground, I generally whisper them something along the lines of "Hey, you seem to know what you're doing. If you can keep their goons off of my back, I'll keep you healed. Sound good?". Likewise, if you find a healer who actually heals, you can offer to watch their back in exchange for some healing.

As I said before, I can't give you much specific advice for the rogue class. However, I can offer a few tips in general for melee-oriented PvP.

1. You're the dual-wielding, fast-attacking guy with the leather. If you're fighting a big guy with a giant axe or whatnot, stick to them like glue while trying to keep behind him so as to cause him to miss out on attacks. When I play my paladin and use a 2-hander, I try to "joust" rogues by moving in and out of melee range, so that my single, powerful swings are connecting as often as the rogues small, weaker attacks. You need to avoid that.

2. Max out your first aid skill and use it as much as possible. Being able to bandage during a fight will often give you the edge over your opponent. You can buy a window to do this with a well-timed stun or terrain use. You should also do this when your opponent is otherwise occupied; for example, if a paladin has Blessing of Protection on himself, he can't attack. Bandage then.

3. Never give up, and don't get frustrated. There's always a chance that you can pull of an unlikely victory. You'd be surprised how many times I've come back from a 0-2 deficit in WSG to win, or pulled off a 5-cap victory in AB at the last second.

4. As much as possible, BG alongside people who you know and can count on. Being IRL friends with them is a bonus. I have a group of 70 friends that I pay WoW with and live nearby, and it really helps to know what to expect from them in a fight.

I hope that helps!

[Memnoch]

Well, I ended up being Raidleader (whatever that is) for my WSJ assault last night and we WON!!!! We had heaps of chat, mainly between 4 of us, which I initiated. Actually got some coordination going (although I couldn't figure out how to use the raid targeting icons) and I managed to sneak in with someone else healing me and capture one of the flags. More to come in a sec...

[Hivetyrant]

Especially in PVP, the best tip I can give you is that, while it's great to know your class and your character well, as a rogue is all about survivability, and the best way to survive is to know what to expect from your enemies. If you want to get ahead, you are going to have to learn about other classes and what they are capable of.

As a rogue before BC, my main enemy was the Paladin and Warlock because they were a pain in the ass to kill, however once I played as them I learned more about the class and perfected my technique to take advantage of their weaknesses.

Basically, do some study, see what they are able to do, and change your tactics for each class to suit. Unfortunately it's not easy to have a build that can take on anyone, but I have always believed that the key to winning comes down to skill, not gear/class/build.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Memnoch Well, I ended up being Raidleader (whatever that is) for my WSJ assault last night and we WON!!!! We had heaps of chat, mainly between 4 of us, which I initiated. Actually got some coordination going (although I couldn't figure out how to use the raid targeting icons) and I managed to sneak in with someone else healing me and capture one of the flags. More to come in a sec...

You will win every so often but unfortunately, due to the age imbalance and the great masses of younger people that seem to gravitate toward alliance, your games will mainly be "organized chaos" as you put it. Alliance side isn't great for PvP. For PvE however it's not bad, as there's always groups to be found etc. Then again, your AH prices are higher. Pro's and Con's .

[Lavindathar]

Glad your getting to grips with it.

As has been stated, alliance in PvP are usually quite bad. Only the people playing tend to be younger...they want to kill the bad guys.

Best chance to win in PvP is when you are high enough to go to Alterac Valley. Alliance have a terrain advantage there. All other BG's are equal.

And as for playing your rogue, know other classes. Rogues change in PvP when you hit level 66. Cloak of Shadows is imba, and nails spellcasters.

Most of all, learn by playing, and have fun!

[Marty4]

Interestingly, I've noticed over the last two weeks that most of my AB and WSG games I win, while I'm only 50/50 at best in AV (I play alliance).

Lately, alliance healing classes seem much more skilled and willing to heal those who deal more damage than themselves. I usually find myself with 1 or 2 other healers in any given AB, and when we spread out to help on multiple fronts it seems that the horde just can't handle the pressure. It helps that all of their shaman are spamming Lighting Bolt and Earth Shock, of course.

I've found that a good way to help your group win is to come up with a solid strategy, take command of any game you're in, and stick to the strat. In my case, I've found that all-out offense wins in WSG: Get all 10 people to zerg the flag, then meet their flag carrier in midfield, kill him, then escort your FC home. AB can generally be won by quickly zerging the BS from your start point (farm or stables), then taking the LM and holding all three nodes for the win. The mine seems to be a dead spot.

I hope that helps!

[Memnoch]

Originally Posted by Kakero One of the reason where you cannot land a killing blow is because your hit rating is too low. You need at least 5% hit rating to never miss a special attack (the ones with yellow damage).

How do I improve my hit rating?

[SpiritWarrior]

You hit things.




Or take talents that do so (I know rogues have some), wear items that do so (+hit rating items). It is an important stat with dual-wield since the offhand has a % chance to miss anyways, so it is always something to consider on any DWer. Don't go overboard with it or anything.