Are men pigs? An article. - Page 3

fable · 03-04-2002, 01:16 PM

Throughout history, men have argued that it is in their biological nature to desire multiple partners. Over time, we have evolved towards taking a partner in order to help raise our children and enforce a set of moral codes that contradict our stronger physical needs.

I've only seen it argued by a very few dissipates and scientists, the latter wishing they were the former.

As far as "our stronger physical needs" are concerned, there isn't a shred of scientific evidence for the greater "sexual need" of men, anymore than there was the medieval conclusion that women had a greater need. IMHO, and for what little that's worth, it's just more "the two genders are two species" propaganda.

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

Redblueflare · 03-04-2002, 01:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

Hehe Actually I think you are wrong on one account..Stereotypes are frequently all to correct and on the money.

I really don't agree with you here Magik. Stereotypes are usually wrong in my opinion. I do agree that people shouldn't be judged on a stereotype. That's just wrong, especially if you don't know that person.
Anyhow, I've dealt with ladies who were convincd all men are pigs before. It's not that all men are pigs, it's just that those girls dated guys who were. Can't judge a large group, on the account of a few. Oh and the writer sounded just a *little* bit hypocrital, placing most of the blame on women.

Sir Kenyth · 03-04-2002, 03:20 PM

Remember, this is an article from a mens mag. much like cosmo. is a womens mag. Any time you have a publication targetted at a particular group, objectivity is compromised for increased sales. Take the article with a grain of salt. The base concept is sound though. Men are no more capable, culpable or guilty than women.

Thoran · 03-04-2002, 04:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe:
I'm only a lurker anymore but I felt I should comment on this thread.
The response has a good idea, but a number of holes in their theory. A partner will still cheat on you even if you do fullfill all phsyical and emotional needs for them. Some people are just apathetic, some don't think they'll get caught, and some don't even view it as wrong. There are a lot of reasons for someone to cheat and a good majority of them are not to be blamed on your partner. I mean even if you are getting urges to cheat on your signifigant other, that should be a clue to either let them know and try to work something out, or break up. There's no excuse for telling somone how much you care about them and all then, and then turning around and cheating on them

Very good post Azreal and I agree wholeheartedly. As a person who cheated on girlfriends in highschool and was cheated on by my first wife I've kindof seen both ends of the spectrum.

When I was not married I didn't put a lot of stock in being faithful to a girlfriend. I was immature and selfish and lost some good friends because of it, through no fault of their own.

My first wife simply thought she could get away with it... when I told her I wanted a divorce because of it she was shocked, she honestly thought I was overreacting. No relationship is perfect but IMO there's no excuse for cheating in a marriage. If I feel so strongly for someone else that I'm tempted to cheat then it's time for me to consider if I really should be married. I would end a relationship that I was unhappy with BEFORE getting into another. I think this is where all the excuses people come up with fall flat... if they're so unhappy then it's time for them to move on. IMO, cheating demeans the cheater much more than the partner. I have too much respect for myself to engage in such behavior.

I also don't agree about this overwhelming natural drive that will overcome all hopes to resist... it's just plain BULL (and I've got first hand experience here too [img]smile.gif[/img] , but it's fairly embarrassing so I'll spare you the details). It's a matter of respect for yourself and others... in the end I think that makes the difference between choosing to cheat and choosing to stick by the vows that you made.

Sir Kenyth · 03-04-2002, 05:08 PM

The other reasons you're talking about on why people cheat have to do with something else entirely. The girls you were with really didn't have a huge interest level in you anyway. Someone who is truly interested and in love with you would never treat you that way unless the relationship started falling apart. Men seem real good at ignoring that fact sometimes too. Relationships are much more easily maintained than fixed.

Anyway, the other reason is some people marry without being completely enthralled by their partner. They either marry for security, looks, or money or simply want to "settle" because they don't want to be single. This is dangerous because the whole marriage is based on a farce. An acting job that WILL eventually get old. The act is that they really love you instead of just like you. They usually find some poor soul who is completely smitten by them and take them for a ride. As soon as the REAL Mr./Ms. right comes along. They drop the current partner like a hot potato. Most times, the easiest(not best) way out of an unwanted relationship is to sabotage it with an affair.

fable · 03-04-2002, 06:00 PM

I second Sir Kenyth's remarks. People frequently get married too young, on impulse, and when a guy is only interested in cheerleader looks while a girl's only seeking football biceps. Reality suddenly breaks in on the marriage at some point, as each discovers the other is superficial and irresponsible. Divorce follows, and the usual comments: "Oh, you know, women: can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em." "Typical male. Lazy SOB only wanted to get me in bed or watch football games with his pals." If they wanted life mates and love, they might have done better to choose someone other than a cheerleader and a jock for their spouse.

(And yes, I know that some cheerleaders and jocks have more to offer than that. But many do, and unfortunately the dichotomy between spouse choice and longterm expectations is very real.)

SSJ4Sephiroth · 03-04-2002, 09:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

Hehe Actually I think you are wrong on one account..Stereotypes are frequently all to correct and on the money, the problem is treating INDIVIDUALS as ther stereotype..any individual may not fit the stereotype and should be treated as an unknown quantity, however if the sho fits...then the stereo type is true. I wont go into which ones are accurate and which ones aren't Ill just say...they exist for a reason and stereotypes just dont pop into existance from thin air.

um, arent you being a bit contradictory there? a stereotype is used to judge a large group, and if the stereotype is usually right then wouldnt it make judging the individual a tad useless? using them because theyre right on a few counts and saying they're usually right leads to never judging the individual, because first impressions are importiant.

Thoran · 03-05-2002, 09:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:
The other reasons you're talking about on why people cheat have to do with something else entirely. The girls you were with really didn't have a huge interest level in you anyway. Someone who is truly interested and in love with you would never treat you that way unless the relationship started falling apart. Men seem real good at ignoring that fact sometimes too. Relationships are much more easily maintained than fixed.

Not sure who this is targeted at but I think it's only partially accurate... I actually remember as a young man being devastated when a girlfriend (of one year) broke up with me for cheating. I was a dumb kid and simply thought I could get away with it... I made up any number of rationalizations... but in the end I learned a lesson. My first wife led a life where she was always spoiled rotten... she had never gotten past the "me" stage and thought that because she was bored it was OK. Truth is marriage is hard work and nobody can be a 100% perfect mate all the time... a person should acknowledge that relationships are a two way street, but the fact that their partner chose to cheat is certainly nothing they should accept blame for. People pass off blame for a whole range of antisocial behavior in this country these days. IMO - The person who pulled the perverbial trigger has made a decision to do something regardless of the consequences... and they shouldn't be allowed to push off that responsibility based on some flimsy justification.

Sir Kenyth · 03-05-2002, 05:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Thoran:

Not sure who this is targeted at but I think it's only partially accurate... I actually remember as a young man being devastated when a girlfriend (of one year) broke up with me for cheating. I was a dumb kid and simply thought I could get away with it... I made up any number of rationalizations... but in the end I learned a lesson. My first wife led a life where she was always spoiled rotten... she had never gotten past the "me" stage and thought that because she was bored it was OK. Truth is marriage is hard work and nobody can be a 100% perfect mate all the time... a person should acknowledge that relationships are a two way street, but the fact that their partner chose to cheat is certainly nothing they should accept blame for. People pass off blame for a whole range of antisocial behavior in this country these days. IMO - The person who pulled the perverbial trigger has made a decision to do something regardless of the consequences... and they shouldn't be allowed to push off that responsibility based on some flimsy justification.

Don't get me wrong. I don't justify, only mitigate. Only try to rationalize and explain. The selfish "me" attitude is all too common. Too many people are quite gutless when it comes to getting out of a relationship. Much like a swinging chimp. They won't let go of one branch until they have a good hold of the next one if you know what I mean. It's a little habit called serial monogamy. Simply can't go without a significant other for any period of time, so they start another before dropping the last. This is also called cheating from some perspectives. In truth, the relationship was over long before the final split from the adultery.

03-04-2002, 01:43 PM	#22
Redblueflare Galvatron Join Date: May 9, 2001 Location: The backwoods in Georgia sigh Age: 39 Posts: 2,151	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Hehe Actually I think you are wrong on one account..Stereotypes are frequently all to correct and on the money. I really don't agree with you here Magik. Stereotypes are usually wrong in my opinion. I do agree that people shouldn't be judged on a stereotype. That's just wrong, especially if you don't know that person. Anyhow, I've dealt with ladies who were convincd all men are pigs before. It's not that all men are pigs, it's just that those girls dated guys who were. Can't judge a large group, on the account of a few. Oh and the writer sounded just a little bit hypocrital, placing most of the blame on women. __________________ <br /><br />\"If you ever need me just whistle, and i\'ll come running. I promise. <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Smile]\" src=\"smile.gif\" /> <br />Kupo, Kupo! A man can\'t get a sword if he can\'t dance! <img border=\"0\" title=\"\" alt=\"[Big Grin]\" src=\"biggrin.gif\" />

03-04-2002, 03:20 PM	#23
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	Remember, this is an article from a mens mag. much like cosmo. is a womens mag. Any time you have a publication targetted at a particular group, objectivity is compromised for increased sales. Take the article with a grain of salt. The base concept is sound though. Men are no more capable, culpable or guilty than women. __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

03-04-2002, 04:45 PM	#24
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	quote: Originally posted by AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe: I'm only a lurker anymore but I felt I should comment on this thread. The response has a good idea, but a number of holes in their theory. A partner will still cheat on you even if you do fullfill all phsyical and emotional needs for them. Some people are just apathetic, some don't think they'll get caught, and some don't even view it as wrong. There are a lot of reasons for someone to cheat and a good majority of them are not to be blamed on your partner. I mean even if you are getting urges to cheat on your signifigant other, that should be a clue to either let them know and try to work something out, or break up. There's no excuse for telling somone how much you care about them and all then, and then turning around and cheating on them Very good post Azreal and I agree wholeheartedly. As a person who cheated on girlfriends in highschool and was cheated on by my first wife I've kindof seen both ends of the spectrum. When I was not married I didn't put a lot of stock in being faithful to a girlfriend. I was immature and selfish and lost some good friends because of it, through no fault of their own. My first wife simply thought she could get away with it... when I told her I wanted a divorce because of it she was shocked, she honestly thought I was overreacting. No relationship is perfect but IMO there's no excuse for cheating in a marriage. If I feel so strongly for someone else that I'm tempted to cheat then it's time for me to consider if I really should be married. I would end a relationship that I was unhappy with BEFORE getting into another. I think this is where all the excuses people come up with fall flat... if they're so unhappy then it's time for them to move on. IMO, cheating demeans the cheater much more than the partner. I have too much respect for myself to engage in such behavior. I also don't agree about this overwhelming natural drive that will overcome all hopes to resist... it's just plain BULL (and I've got first hand experience here too [img]smile.gif[/img] , but it's fairly embarrassing so I'll spare you the details). It's a matter of respect for yourself and others... in the end I think that makes the difference between choosing to cheat and choosing to stick by the vows that you made.

03-04-2002, 05:08 PM	#25
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	The other reasons you're talking about on why people cheat have to do with something else entirely. The girls you were with really didn't have a huge interest level in you anyway. Someone who is truly interested and in love with you would never treat you that way unless the relationship started falling apart. Men seem real good at ignoring that fact sometimes too. Relationships are much more easily maintained than fixed. Anyway, the other reason is some people marry without being completely enthralled by their partner. They either marry for security, looks, or money or simply want to "settle" because they don't want to be single. This is dangerous because the whole marriage is based on a farce. An acting job that WILL eventually get old. The act is that they really love you instead of just like you. They usually find some poor soul who is completely smitten by them and take them for a ride. As soon as the REAL Mr./Ms. right comes along. They drop the current partner like a hot potato. Most times, the easiest(not best) way out of an unwanted relationship is to sabotage it with an affair. __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

03-04-2002, 09:01 PM	#27
SSJ4Sephiroth Beholder Join Date: May 4, 2001 Location: The Outside Looking In Age: 37 Posts: 4,361	quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Hehe Actually I think you are wrong on one account..Stereotypes are frequently all to correct and on the money, the problem is treating INDIVIDUALS as ther stereotype..any individual may not fit the stereotype and should be treated as an unknown quantity, however if the sho fits...then the stereo type is true. I wont go into which ones are accurate and which ones aren't Ill just say...they exist for a reason and stereotypes just dont pop into existance from thin air. um, arent you being a bit contradictory there? a stereotype is used to judge a large group, and if the stereotype is usually right then wouldnt it make judging the individual a tad useless? using them because theyre right on a few counts and saying they're usually right leads to never judging the individual, because first impressions are importiant.

03-04-2002, 01:16 PM	#21
fable Quintesson Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Where I am. Posts: 1,089	Throughout history, men have argued that it is in their biological nature to desire multiple partners. Over time, we have evolved towards taking a partner in order to help raise our children and enforce a set of moral codes that contradict our stronger physical needs. I've only seen it argued by a very few dissipates and scientists, the latter wishing they were the former. As far as "our stronger physical needs" are concerned, there isn't a shred of scientific evidence for the greater "sexual need" of men, anymore than there was the medieval conclusion that women had a greater need. IMHO, and for what little that's worth, it's just more "the two genders are two species" propaganda. [ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

03-04-2002, 06:00 PM	#26
fable Quintesson Join Date: March 17, 2001 Location: Where I am. Posts: 1,089	I second Sir Kenyth's remarks. People frequently get married too young, on impulse, and when a guy is only interested in cheerleader looks while a girl's only seeking football biceps. Reality suddenly breaks in on the marriage at some point, as each discovers the other is superficial and irresponsible. Divorce follows, and the usual comments: "Oh, you know, women: can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em." "Typical male. Lazy SOB only wanted to get me in bed or watch football games with his pals." If they wanted life mates and love, they might have done better to choose someone other than a cheerleader and a jock for their spouse. (And yes, I know that some cheerleaders and jocks have more to offer than that. But many do, and unfortunately the dichotomy between spouse choice and longterm expectations is very real.)

03-05-2002, 09:34 AM	#28
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	quote: Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: The other reasons you're talking about on why people cheat have to do with something else entirely. The girls you were with really didn't have a huge interest level in you anyway. Someone who is truly interested and in love with you would never treat you that way unless the relationship started falling apart. Men seem real good at ignoring that fact sometimes too. Relationships are much more easily maintained than fixed. Not sure who this is targeted at but I think it's only partially accurate... I actually remember as a young man being devastated when a girlfriend (of one year) broke up with me for cheating. I was a dumb kid and simply thought I could get away with it... I made up any number of rationalizations... but in the end I learned a lesson. My first wife led a life where she was always spoiled rotten... she had never gotten past the "me" stage and thought that because she was bored it was OK. Truth is marriage is hard work and nobody can be a 100% perfect mate all the time... a person should acknowledge that relationships are a two way street, but the fact that their partner chose to cheat is certainly nothing they should accept blame for. People pass off blame for a whole range of antisocial behavior in this country these days. IMO - The person who pulled the perverbial trigger has made a decision to do something regardless of the consequences... and they shouldn't be allowed to push off that responsibility based on some flimsy justification.

03-05-2002, 05:14 PM	#29
Sir Kenyth Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: somewhere Age: 54 Posts: 1,785	quote: Originally posted by Thoran: Not sure who this is targeted at but I think it's only partially accurate... I actually remember as a young man being devastated when a girlfriend (of one year) broke up with me for cheating. I was a dumb kid and simply thought I could get away with it... I made up any number of rationalizations... but in the end I learned a lesson. My first wife led a life where she was always spoiled rotten... she had never gotten past the "me" stage and thought that because she was bored it was OK. Truth is marriage is hard work and nobody can be a 100% perfect mate all the time... a person should acknowledge that relationships are a two way street, but the fact that their partner chose to cheat is certainly nothing they should accept blame for. People pass off blame for a whole range of antisocial behavior in this country these days. IMO - The person who pulled the perverbial trigger has made a decision to do something regardless of the consequences... and they shouldn't be allowed to push off that responsibility based on some flimsy justification. Don't get me wrong. I don't justify, only mitigate. Only try to rationalize and explain. The selfish "me" attitude is all too common. Too many people are quite gutless when it comes to getting out of a relationship. Much like a swinging chimp. They won't let go of one branch until they have a good hold of the next one if you know what I mean. It's a little habit called serial monogamy. Simply can't go without a significant other for any period of time, so they start another before dropping the last. This is also called cheating from some perspectives. In truth, the relationship was over long before the final split from the adultery. __________________ Master Barbsman and wielder of the razor wit!<br /><br />There are dark angels among us. They present themselves in shining raiment but there is, in their hearts, the blackness of the abyss.

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