Evil Partys

[ister]

While there are some opportunities that evil characters have, they are far outweighed by the quests that a stereotypical evil character ought to forgo. Obviously you can rationalize all sorts of things, but I think the evil character needs to do so more often. Here's how I see the major quests in Amn:

Circus
Stereotypical Good Character: "Help the people, save the circus!"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Circus folk have no money no power. What's in it for me?"

De 'Arnise
Stereotypical Good Character: "Save Castle!"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Probably good loot and gold there"

Copper Cornet
Stereotypical Good Character: "Something is wrong here"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Rotten do-gooding Hendak"

Slavers
Stereotypical Good Character: "Something is wrong here"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Wait I killed Hendak. is there a quest here?"

Jierdan's quest
Stereotypical Good Character: "Save People"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Well I guess he promised me cash?"

Umar Hills
Stereotypical Good Character: "Save People"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Small village, no gold what's in it for me?"

Planar Sphere
Stereotypical Good Character: "Helping out the authorities"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "(Reluctantly) I suppose I need to suck up to these Cowled Wizards"

Unseeing Eye
Stereotypical Good Character: "Help out Helm"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Can't stand that Helm" (If you're a Cleric I guess you might want Talos' favor)

Planar Prison
Stereotypical Good Character: "Save Actor"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Acting troop has no gold. What's in it for me?"

Trademeet
Stereotypical Good Character: "Save Town"
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Rich town. Should be good loot and cash"

Thieves Guild
Stereotypical Good Character: "Help out Shadow Thieves? No way."
Stereotypical Evil Character: "Opportunity for some mayhem"

So my interpretation is 5/11 missed quests for the evil player, 1/11 missed for the good player. And that's not counting the fact that the evil paths in the Copper Coronet and in Trademeet are much worse. I suppose you can argue that the guarded compound and twisted rune make up for this, but when you go down to smaller quests I think the proportion of evil-doing stays about the same - there are lots of people who have no wealth or power who want your help. What's in it for ME?

[Iron Greasel]

Of the Thieves' Guild: Fascinatingly, in the middle of all this do-gooding there are still only two ways to rescue Imoen. Side with, fund and do work for the Thieves' Guild, or the vampires. Finding a good path around that is somewhat difficult.

[Betelgeuse]

so is it possible to finish the chapter without siding with either of them?

[Iron Greasel]

No. And that's the problem. For good characters anyway.

[chimaera]

There are also some things XP can't buy, like summoning a "Slightly Tougher" Pit Fiend in the middle of the Hall of the Radiant Heart.
[img]graemlins/firedevil.gif[/img]

[Kyrvias]

Actually, there is, Iron Greasel. If you download teh Saereleth mod, the Knights of the Mots Radiant Hart will chater a boat instead of Bodhi/thieves guild.

[Iron Greasel]

Yes, you can get a mod. You can get mods to fix many things. But in the un-modded game you have very limited choises.

I think that people are a little rigid when it comes to 'evil' behaviour. Why must an 'evil' character kill anything and everything in sight? Such behaviour is self destructive. One can be evil without being a thug.

As for the dryads, I could think of multiple reasons as to why an evil character would help them.

1. Expectation of a reward. You're not clairvoyant, and it's quite possible the faerie folk give shiny stuff when you help them.

and more importantly...

2. The old proverb 'The enemy of the enemy is my friend'. Irenicus is your arch-nemesis, and hurting him by freeing the dryads is a nice way to spite him, after all he has done to you.

[Lord]

Originally posted by The Mountain Hare: I think that people are a little rigid when it comes to 'evil' behaviour. Why must an 'evil' character kill anything and everything in sight? Such behaviour is self destructive. One can be evil without being a thug.

Well said. I think Dundee posted a few situations earlier in this thread in which you could complete the same quests as the good guys, but in a more evil fashion that does not necessarily involve killing everything in sight. I feel like playing an evil character involves taking advantage of a situation if it benefits me.

[Olorin]

I played through a game where I played as an evil mercenary. I didn't have to try to hard to find reasons to do most of the quests. I also liked the fact that I didn't get many of the reputation increases when I always chose the "how much is this worth to you?" and then "I'm done, now pay up" dialouges.

Why would an evil character do a "good" quest? Take the Hendak/slavers quest. For one thing, a group of slavers ambushed me in the city, which gives me a reason not to like them. Then there's the argument that Lehtinan will reward me with some part of his wealth for taking out Hendak, against the argument that I can take all his treasure if he's dead. As for the slaver ship, if I've already helped Hendak, they are now definitely my enemy, so why not strike first and loot their hideout?

It's not like all evil people are on the same side. Just because the slavers are evil and my character is evil doesn't mean that we're on a team. On the contrary, I'm more inclined to kill and loot a small group of evil types because if I get them all, there's no reprisals. The authorities might even thank me. If I went around killing "good" people just for the fun and loot, I'd soon have the guards all over me. From the mercenary's standpoint, fighting against other evil groups is often more rewarding.

Besides, why can't an evil character understand the benefits of a good repuatation?

I would argue that a politician who is motivated only by a desire for power and money would be considered an "evil" person. Yet they will do just about anything to convince the public that they are good. This includes helping people who are not in a position to reward them. They value the positive PR more than money in some cases.

A smart evil mercenary also values having a good reputation. Sure, the offers for your services are often better from evil employers, but why not have a reputation such that both good and evil types will offer you jobs. While the goody-goodies might offer less compensation, at least you know that they'll pay up when the job is done. Evil employers might have been lying from the start, or they might decide that once you're done with the job, it's more beneficial to them to try to kill you than pay you.

While I agree with the premise that the game is slanted towards rewarding the "good" path for quests, I think that most quests can still be done from an evil alignment. All the major quests promise gold or items as rewards, and many others offer the promise of good loot to be had. I think that it takes just as much justification for a truly "good" character to take on all the quests.

And if you roleplay either a seriously good or evil character, you'll be missing out on a lot. While an evil character will miss out some of the quests, consider what a good character would miss out on if they did not steal anything. Even if they allowed their thief to steal from evil groups, they would still miss out on a lot of loot (and exp from disarming/unlocking).

Roleplaying and powergaming are separate playstyles. It actually doesn't make much sense to ask if a roleplayed character would do all the quests. Of course not, otherwise how would a game be any different the next time when you roleplay a different alignment? As to whether it's easier to roleplay a good alignment vs. an evil one, I think that it is debatable. When I consider all the items and gold that a good party would lose out on by not stealing, it would tend to balance out against the fewer quests that the evil characters did.

Good parties would lose out on the Horn of Valhalla (stealing), Ring of Gaxx (evil quest), Improved Mace of Disruption (keeping real illithium involves deception), perhaps the Flail of Ages (would a good party really loot the Keep that they are attempting to liberate?), and lots of gold, spell scrolls and other items that are gained by stealing. You can probably argue that it's okay for a good party to loot any containers inside a building where they kill all the people for quest reasons (i.e. Cult, Slaver Ship), but not from others; including the Shadow Thieves, if you're working for them.

I think any real form of roleplaying will mean that you miss out on some of the quests and items in the game. Fortunately, there are many more XP in the game than are needed to hit the cap, and it is possible to win the game without having max leveled characters wielding all the best items.