Interesting bit on rhetoric

[Rokenn]

From the FAIR website:
What a Difference Four Years Makes, Why U.N. inspectors left Iraq--then and now

[Timber Loftis]

That's a good and biting commentary (not really commentary - since it only quotes their own works, but you know what I mean) on the integrity of the media.

An interesting read, Im sure that THIS time things will be much better, Iraq has given its word after all. The UN would NEVER fall for the same trick THREE times [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Ronn_Bman]

Seems they left then because they were denied access as agreed to. Not much sense in staying if they couldn't do their job.

Despite the obvious "track" of this article, there were inspectors that were expelled or were expelled indirectly. I remember the American spy issue. Our inspectors were asked to leave or Iraq would deny access to any inspectors. They left and still access was restricted.

Four years does make alot of difference. It makes some think that by not following through with their post Gulf War obligations then that the Iraqis are now free from them. Of course, they're wrong.

[ 10-28-2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Rokenn]

on a related note, for those that did not know we were using weapon inspections to spy

[Ronn_Bman]

If Iraq hadn't denied unfettered access from the very beginning of the process, the Inspectors would have come and gone long before this happened.

Hmmm, we spied on someone who refused to live up to their post Gulf War obligations. Some one who completely overran another country, and threaten others in the region. Someone who forced the largest armed confrontation since WWII. Can't imagine why we'd want to "keep an eye" on their military dictator and his forces.

If he wouldn't allow the inspectors to inspect, it makes sense we put them to work doing something else. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 10-28-2002, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

When did loosing a war, allow a nation the right to dictate terms and conditions? I thought the whole idea when you defeated an enemy, that YOU got to make the rules...not vice-versa. Anyone else think this a bit odd?

And exactly how can you spy on a country you defeated. By definition you won, so any secrets are yours for the taking...not that there would be anything usefull except evidence of illicit arms programs that country might have had going, or perhaps the names of the european companies that were doing business with you...namely some really notable German companies...

[ 10-28-2002, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Timber Loftis]

Oh, c'mon guys, the US got caught spying. To defend it is unseemly. Why did the US spy when it had the opportunity. For the very same reason that bears s**t in the woods - nature (and no, I didn't mention wolves ) Seriously, nations spy on each other because the can, and must, and would anyway.

And no, in the modern day, defeating a nation in a war does not allow you to pillage their country of ideas, secrets, property, land, people, or anything else. Especially when all you did was "liberate" another country. Technically, the world's *justified* job in the Gulf War ended with freeing Kuwait, and the push further was *only* justified to the extent that it was to keep Iraq from doing the same again. This may not be what our view of the war is, and it may not be what the soldiers on the ground thought or felt, but under the rules of warfare this was the setting.

The US gets caught spying a lot by the way. I don't know if it's because the US is worse at it, has many more spies than other nations, or is just unlucky. But, since Powers got shot down, we've had more than our fair share of getting caught in the spy game. At least having the biggest guns means never having to say you're sorry.

[Ronn_Bman]

True, but spycraft goes on everyday, everywhere.

We spy on allies and enemies alike, and they spy on us. It's the way the game works. Too bad it's like that, but that's the world we live in.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: And no, in the modern day, defeating a nation in a war does not allow you to pillage their country of ideas, secrets, property, land, people, or anything else. Oh and who decided that? The last I heard the winners make the rules. The US gets caught spying a lot by the way. I don't know if it's because the US is worse at it, has many more spies than other nations, or is just unlucky. But, since Powers got shot down, we've had more than our fair share of getting caught in the spy game. At least having the biggest guns means never having to say you're sorry. Yes the US gets caught spying on occasion (I would contest the "a lot" part mainly because we don't use people nearly as much as we used to thanks to Jimmy Carters neutering regulations which are just now being rescinded.) All in all I would say we get caught so to speak less frequently than we might.

[ 10-28-2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]