Don't ask Don't tell - Page 4

Sir Taliesin · 11-18-2002, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Assuming open gays are allowed, tell me how to make it practical. Housing and showers for instance - which are communal. Now, must I really shower with someone who lets me know he's gay? Isn't that akin to making me shower with a woman or vice versa - as the "uncomfortableness" of sharing a shower is not based on gender, but on unwanted sexual desires or overtures. If you allow open gays, how do you NOT force yourself into a separate housing situation? Elsewise, why not treat all men & women that same: communal bunks and showers for all (like in Starship Troopers).

Assuming it's philosophically mandated, I still think it is simply to impractical.

Great point Timber!!! One I was about to make. I also think LofA started to touch on it. It must be stated again that if you DON'T TELL there is NO PROBLEM!

As far as women serving in the military... as long as they aren't serving in combat together, I have no problem. I would actually go even further and say that I have no problem with women in combat... as long as they are in all-female units. During the Gulf War, I served in a Headquaters company of a Combat Engineering Battalion. Before we went overseas to Saudia Arabia we lost two females to pregency. Not that uncomman I know, but the fathers were in the unit. Both females got pregnent when they were supposed to be on duty. It takes two to tango, I know. But that was two soldiers that were lost to that unit, before we even deployed. Later on once we got in country we had guys endangering our camp because they were trying to sneak in and see some women that were there. We had several marriages break up because people couldn't keep their pants on and it got back to spouses at home. We sent other women home after they got pregnent during the war, still more soldiers lost. Then we had fights break out because of jealousy. It was a bad situation. It really soured me on serving with the opposite sex. It's extremely difficult to deal with hormones, especially when your dealing with 18 and 19 year old men and women. I would expect it to be no different with homosexuals.

Just my two cents worth.

Timber Loftis · 11-18-2002, 01:14 PM

More great points, Sir T. I have not been a soldier, but I considered it when young, and am smart enough to figure out that discipline, willingness to follow orders, and lack of emotion are essential to battlefield survival and success. Female soldiers don't bother me so much, but there should be strict segregation to avoid these problems.

Sazerac · 11-18-2002, 01:32 PM

Ok, my stance on the copyright situation:

To avoid potential legal problems here on Ironworks, it is best to do one of the two things when citing other works:

1) Provide a link to the article rather than cut/pasting in the post (preferable)

OR

2) If you do wish to cut/paste, provide a single line citation with author's name, website, and news bureau (if applicable). Changing the font color or at least putting italics around the quoted text would help as well.

I'm certain no one intentionally was trying to pass off someone else's work as their own, here. [img]smile.gif[/img] Still, on as public a forum as IW is, it's probably better to provide the proper documentation when referencing a secondary source.

On a side note: Megabot, you are entitled to your opinion, but continue to speak to a moderator such as Larry_OHF in such a rude and demeaning manner and you will do so to your ultimate regret. Larry, Cloudbringer, Luvian, Wyvern, Xignal, Dundee Slaytern, Cocoaspud, and myself may not be direct moderators of General Discussions, but we are Ironworks Moderators, and are to be treated with respect (as any member here should be). Consider this your final warning on this matter.

-Sazerac

Iron_Ranger · 11-18-2002, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donut:
How can I possibly guess that this is what you meant:

quote:
Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:
I was talking about being openly gay. Crimsons last post was a perfect example of that.

When you said this:

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:
Am I speechless after reading that post. How anyone is going to agure that is beyond me.

I spent 20 minutes trying to work out if 'agrue' meant 'argue' or 'agree'.

Well considering argue and agrue only has one subtle diffrence I would have thought it would be pretty easy to figure out.

Read crimsons post again. Only two people knew the men were gay. That is not being 'openly' gay. You have introduced the word 'openly', I never did. I know that gay men can't come out in society because of small minded people. And let me give you a little heads up for the future, some gay men get married to women, and they have children!!!!! Really!!

I believe thats called Bi sexual no?

Where did I say that the only form of male bonding was homosexual sex?

"they thought it helped soilders bond" so you bond better if you gay?

I don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of the NHL. Was that the same Greg Louganis that was an Olympic Gold medal winning diver? If it was he is still alive. He is HIV positive but as far as I know has not contracted AIDS. If it wasn't then that's some unlucky name![/QUOTE] No maybe his name was Greg, and his last name wasnt loughanis, it was something similar to that though, maybe I have him mixed up with someone in the minors.

If that is the case, then I dont know of any openly gay men in the NHL.

Lanesra · 11-18-2002, 06:22 PM

Yeeehaa !! the NHL's got the all clear.

Donut · 11-18-2002, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:

Well considering argue and agrue only has one subtle diffrence I would have thought it would be pretty easy to figure out.
So what is the difference between 'agrue' and 'agree', isn't that one subtle difference!!!

I believe thats called Bi sexual no?

Possibly, but possibly it is just a gay man pretending to be heterosexual. Gay men get married to conform. It's a fact of life. Just because a man has sex with both men and women doesn't make them bisexual. Ask your dad. Gay men have sex with women because they want to conform.

Where did I say that the only form of male bonding was homosexual sex?

"they thought it helped soldiers bond" so you bond better if you gay?

So where did I say that the ONLY form of male bonding was homosexual sex?

I don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of the NHL. Was that the same Greg Louganis that was an Olympic Gold medal winning diver? If it was he is still alive. He is HIV positive but as far as I know has not contracted AIDS. If it wasn't then that's some unlucky name!

No maybe his name was Greg, and his last name wasnt loughanis, it was something similar to that though, maybe I have him mixed up with someone in the minors.

If that is the case, then I dont know of any openly gay men in the NHL. So you got his last name wrong and maybe his first name was Greg but apart from that you got everything wrong. Why don't you admit you don't know what you are talking about? As usual!

To be perfectly honest your mistake about Louganis is hysterical, I don't know why I bother. Why am I arguing with a 14 year old, I should know better! The sad thing is that I know more about the NHL than you do. Greg Louganis - didn't he play for the Dallas Divers?

[ 11-18-2002, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Donut ]

Iron_Ranger · 11-18-2002, 08:35 PM

Donut I picked up 2 things that could be called Flaming, but no one will do anything as usaual, just like the last time you flammed me.

And there is apparently a reason you think I should care what you think of me. Also I thought I might make a note that I have recived two PMs for two very intelligent members here at IW contridicting your statment about me not knowing what I was talking about.

And the fact you say you know more about the NHL then me is really..funny. If you dont let me quiz you real quick if you dont mind?

Who one the Cup in 1995?

What is Pavel Bures nick name?

What was the longest running dynasty in the NHL?

Who was the first goalie to wear a mask?

Who was the last player not to wear a helment?

I know all of them, do you?

Anyway this is off topic.

Djinn Raffo · 11-18-2002, 08:56 PM

Donut you obviously feel very strongly about being gay but come on.. you don't need to be a flamer...

Downunda · 11-18-2002, 09:02 PM

I've got an NHL question for you Iron Ranger. How many players, coaching staff, med staff and administrative officials in the NHL are gay?

I don't think Donut was ever intentionally flaming you, all he was doing was trying to prove his point and you fully didn't get it

FYI, I typed "NHL gay players" into google and came up with a couple of relevant links...
- Boston Lobsters

- Gays in sports

- A very relevant newspaper article regarding the public view of gays in sports

[ 11-18-2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Downunda ]

Downunda · 11-18-2002, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lanesra:
Yeeehaa !! the NHL's got the all clear.

[img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

11-18-2002, 01:14 PM	#32
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	More great points, Sir T. I have not been a soldier, but I considered it when young, and am smart enough to figure out that discipline, willingness to follow orders, and lack of emotion are essential to battlefield survival and success. Female soldiers don't bother me so much, but there should be strict segregation to avoid these problems. __________________

11-18-2002, 01:32 PM	#33
Sazerac Ironworks Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Monroe, LA Age: 60 Posts: 7,387	Ok, my stance on the copyright situation: To avoid potential legal problems here on Ironworks, it is best to do one of the two things when citing other works: 1) Provide a link to the article rather than cut/pasting in the post (preferable) OR 2) If you do wish to cut/paste, provide a single line citation with author's name, website, and news bureau (if applicable). Changing the font color or at least putting italics around the quoted text would help as well. I'm certain no one intentionally was trying to pass off someone else's work as their own, here. [img]smile.gif[/img] Still, on as public a forum as IW is, it's probably better to provide the proper documentation when referencing a secondary source. On a side note: Megabot, you are entitled to your opinion, but continue to speak to a moderator such as Larry_OHF in such a rude and demeaning manner and you will do so to your ultimate regret. Larry, Cloudbringer, Luvian, Wyvern, Xignal, Dundee Slaytern, Cocoaspud, and myself may not be direct moderators of General Discussions, but we are Ironworks Moderators, and are to be treated with respect (as any member here should be). Consider this your final warning on this matter. -Sazerac __________________ "And all my days are trances, and all my nightly dreams, Are where thy grey eye glances, and where thy footstep gleams, In what ethereal dances, by what eternal streams..."

11-18-2002, 08:35 PM	#37
Iron_Ranger Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 18, 2002 Location: Where Eagles Dare Age: 36 Posts: 1,391	Donut I picked up 2 things that could be called Flaming, but no one will do anything as usaual, just like the last time you flammed me. And there is apparently a reason you think I should care what you think of me. Also I thought I might make a note that I have recived two PMs for two very intelligent members here at IW contridicting your statment about me not knowing what I was talking about. And the fact you say you know more about the NHL then me is really..funny. If you dont let me quiz you real quick if you dont mind? Who one the Cup in 1995? What is Pavel Bures nick name? What was the longest running dynasty in the NHL? Who was the first goalie to wear a mask? Who was the last player not to wear a helment? I know all of them, do you? Anyway this is off topic. __________________ <br />[url]\"http://www.bratgirlcentral.com/cgi-bin/ouapforum/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi\" target=\"_blank\">Once Upon A Paper</a><br />Living on a razors edge<br />Balancing on ledge<br />Living on a razors edge

11-18-2002, 09:02 PM	#39
Downunda Set - Egyptian God of Chaos Join Date: January 7, 2002 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Age: 45 Posts: 2,975	I've got an NHL question for you Iron Ranger. How many players, coaching staff, med staff and administrative officials in the NHL are gay? I don't think Donut was ever intentionally flaming you, all he was doing was trying to prove his point and you fully didn't get it FYI, I typed "NHL gay players" into google and came up with a couple of relevant links... - Boston Lobsters - Gays in sports - A very relevant newspaper article regarding the public view of gays in sports [ 11-18-2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: Downunda ] __________________ \"Doing stuff is overrated, like Hitler, he did lots of stuff, but doesn\'t everybody wish he\'d just stayed at home and smoked pot?!?\"

11-18-2002, 06:22 PM	#35
Lanesra Symbol of Cyric Join Date: March 29, 2001 Location: Twititania, Europe Age: 63 Posts: 1,221	Yeeehaa !! the NHL's got the all clear.

11-18-2002, 08:56 PM	#38
Djinn Raffo Ra Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Ant Hill Age: 49 Posts: 2,397	Donut you obviously feel very strongly about being gay but come on.. you don't need to be a flamer...

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