Does your country have a "pledge of allegiance"? - Page 2

Ronn_Bman · 06-10-2003, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz:
It’s an inherently authoritarian act anyway, to demand you swear loyalty and die for your country et al.

Saying the pledge is a voluntary act. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 06-10-2003, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Spelca · 06-10-2003, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

quote:
Originally posted by Eisenschwarz:
It’s an inherently authoritarian act anyway, to demand you swear loyalty and die for your country et al.

Saying the pledge is a voluntary act. [/QUOTE]Okay, it is a voluntary act, but do people look at you in a strange way if you don't do it? How about kids in school? I bet children in school who wouldn't want to do it would get looked at strangely. So it may be voluntary, but not like that...

Ronn_Bman · 06-10-2003, 06:50 AM

To the best of my knowledge no public schools even say the pledge everyday anymore.

Sure some people look at people funny at a ballgame if they don't stand and say the pledge, but some people sit through it drinking beer looking at the people who are standing and saying the pledge as if they're something wrong with them. People sit, chat, buy soda, go to the bathroom, and many other things instead of saying the pledge. Big Brother isn't looking and taking names.

[img]smile.gif[/img]

To me the US Pledge is our pledge to one another, not to a specific leader or party. The pledge has been around for over a dozen presidents because it isn't to a pledge to one man or one party, it's a pledge to an idea.

Dreamer128 · 06-10-2003, 07:13 AM

On another note; wasn't the original pledge of allegiance "I pledge allegience to my flag, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisiable, with liberty and justice for all."? I think they originally intended to include equality as well, but left it out due to racial issues back then.

johnny · 06-10-2003, 07:31 AM

No, we don't have that here, and our national anthem is not so popular too i'm afraid.

Dreamer128 · 06-10-2003, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:
and our national anthem is not so popular too i'm afraid.

Nope, even the chairman of the 'Oranje vereniging' didn't know it

johnny · 06-10-2003, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer128:

quote:
Originally posted by johnny:
and our national anthem is not so popular too i'm afraid.

Nope, even the chairman of the 'Oranje vereniging' didn't know it [/QUOTE]I only know the first few lines, and that's enough to turn my back on it. All that crap about honoring the Spanish king.... we had a war that lasted 80 years with that king.

Sir Taliesin · 06-10-2003, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer128:
On another note; wasn't the original pledge of allegiance "I pledge allegience to my flag, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisiable, with liberty and justice for all."? I think they originally intended to include equality as well, but left it out due to racial issues back then.

I believe you are correct... not totally sure though, but it was something like that. God wasn't thrown in until the 1950's. There was actually a big dispute over the "One nation under God" phrase here not long ago. An atheist went to court to stop the recitation of the Pledge in schools. He said that it infringed on his daughter's right to freedom of religion. He initally won in a three judge ruling of the 10th Circuit Court (could be wrong about that, not a Lawyer you know (gets down on his knees and thanks God!) Sorry TL, but I have to work in this building with a ton of them and for the most part their a pretty snotty bunch), but I think the full Circuit threw it out. I might add that his Ex-wife was quite miffed about his actions. Personally, being a Christian, I'd just a soon go back to the old pledge. While I believe in God and I'm quite welling to witness for him, it's still everyones choice as to believe or not, and I'm not willing to force him on anyone that doesn't want him.

Donut · 06-10-2003, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:

quote:
Originally posted by Eisenschwarz:
It’s an inherently authoritarian act anyway, to demand you swear loyalty and die for your country et al.

Saying the pledge is a voluntary act. [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]In theory Ronn. Just try to make a point by not saying it when everyone else is. [img]smile.gif[/img]

DJG · 06-10-2003, 08:28 AM

I live in England, and I have no idea whether we have one!

06-10-2003, 06:50 AM	#13
Ronn_Bman Zartan Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: North Carolina USA Age: 57 Posts: 5,177	To the best of my knowledge no public schools even say the pledge everyday anymore. Sure some people look at people funny at a ballgame if they don't stand and say the pledge, but some people sit through it drinking beer looking at the people who are standing and saying the pledge as if they're something wrong with them. People sit, chat, buy soda, go to the bathroom, and many other things instead of saying the pledge. Big Brother isn't looking and taking names. [img]smile.gif[/img] To me the US Pledge is our pledge to one another, not to a specific leader or party. The pledge has been around for over a dozen presidents because it isn't to a pledge to one man or one party, it's a pledge to an idea. __________________ [img]\"http://home.carolina.rr.com/orthanc/pics/Spinning%20Hammer%20Sig%20Pic.gif\" alt=\" - \" />

06-10-2003, 07:31 AM	#15
johnny 40th Level Warrior Join Date: April 15, 2002 Location: Utrecht The Netherlands Age: 58 Posts: 16,981	No, we don't have that here, and our national anthem is not so popular too i'm afraid. __________________

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06-10-2003, 07:13 AM	#14
Dreamer128 Dracolisk Join Date: March 21, 2001 Location: Europe Age: 39 Posts: 6,136	On another note; wasn't the original pledge of allegiance "I pledge allegience to my flag, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisiable, with liberty and justice for all."? I think they originally intended to include equality as well, but left it out due to racial issues back then.

06-10-2003, 08:28 AM	#20
DJG Symbol of Cyric Join Date: March 16, 2001 Location: Manchester, England Age: 35 Posts: 1,109	I live in England, and I have no idea whether we have one!

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