Magic

Originally posted by Melusine: Donut, continue like that and I'm going to have to ask you to marry me again. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Marry you again? You two got divorced?

[Mojo]

Someone mentioned time travel.... and it lead me to think of something...

If time travel is *ever* possible, I mean, if someone in the distant future invents a time machine, for want of better words, then surely we could do it now. I mean, someone's bound to come back to now for one reason or another....

As for Uri Gellar bending spoons, that could be a form of magic, but it does really depend on what you see as magic. Is telekinesis magic?

Mojo Uri Geller was exposed as a fraud many years ago by the "Amazing Randi" as were almost every psychic ever to come down the pike.
Slight of hand and misdirection is not magik in any sense of the word. Donut knew this and was just having a bit of fun [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Mojo]

I feel a little foolish now.....

But, returning to another part of the debate.... If all magic is Satan's power, what about people who use magic for undeniable good?

[Mellagar]

Though it might be mere coincidence, and many may think I am creating a false story but this is true. For six months, before September 11th, whenever I looked at a clock, randomly, the number 911 would be the time. It would happen perhaps 4 times a week, and after 9/11 it is still an irksome problem. I went for a bicycle ride a few weeks back, and not having looked at how many miles I had gone, when I stopped for water I looked down to see I had traveled 9.11 miles. When I was talking on the phone with my mother the other night, I happened to look up at the VCR clock and it read 9:11 PM, when I asked my mother she had the same time. So the clocks were not off.

Does any of this mean anything but pure coincidence? Possibly. However, in respects of constant observation I do not look at magic as being evil or good. Like the trees, an ocean, a brook, or even human beings, all are made of energy, and energy cannot be destroyed, only redirected. As for levitation I see it merely as a use of surrounding energy, but some see this as sinister, and although they may not fear it, retreat from it. Wicca is neither good nor evil as well, since the only portrayal of good or evil is held in the mindset of men and women. Cats behold enhanced senses we do not, such as sight, hearing, smell, and the talent of knowing when there is something wrong, earhtquakes for example. Do these abilities of theirs, that we do not have, or have not fully built upon, make them right or wrong in the eyes of any particular god that might have created them? Perhaps the only god is the energy that flows throughout the universe, let alone ourselves. The devil, merely the harmful manipulation of this energy by man or beast. Demons exist firstly in our minds, and only after we react to them do they become real. In the end we're food for worms, so as I see it, do not waste your time contemplating the existance of dieties or false gods. Supernatural is only a word, and like words they mean very little when involving the reality of the matter.

Life is to be lived, not overly questioned, and those who spend their time struggling to find all answers where few never need questioning, rarely live. Is there a 'god'? If not to ask of god's existence, is it necessary that one exists?

[slicer15]

Originally posted by Zero Alpha: quote: We will only know when we die, when we are no longer resctricted by our flesh and blood brain. We have limits to our understanding during life...maybe after life, everything becomes clearer

(My Opinion) You just assumed a whole lot. so far as i can see we dont even know if we still exist after we die. have you died permanantly recently? i beleve that we cannot possibly hope to understand everything, but making assumptions about things no person can know about seems a little short sighted.
(/My Opinion) [/QUOTE]Thats why I said maybe after we die. [img]smile.gif[/img] I did not say we definitely exist after death, I said maybe after death things become clearer.

And Stormy, it is our choice whether we accept as our God, so in a way yes, He knows what our ultimate decision is. But we don't, so He tries to guide us, knowing we don't know what we'll do...wait...woops, this is hard. I mean, if He knows that we will never believe in Him, I guess...argh, too hard. Sorry, I just tied myself up.

And about the use of magic for good, can you give me examples? I mean, I was taling about just using it for the hell of it. But even if you do "heal" someone with magic, say, I still believe it is "stolen" from Him if He didnt give permission, and so He doesn't like it.

Again, all the above are mostly my opinion, if not all of it. No offence was meant.

[Thoran]

Originally posted by Mojo: Do you belive in magic?

I think there's a LOT of things in this Universe that we can't detect with our limited senses... but Magic? NOPE. Magic is just a catch-all phrase for anything that we don't understand... YET.

[Thoran]

Originally posted by Mellagar: Though it might be mere coincidence, and many may think I am creating a false story but this is true. For six months, before September 11th, whenever I looked at a clock, randomly, the number 911 would be the time.

I have the uncanny ability to look at the clock at 4:26, so I guess that means it's time to get me a Hemi!

Vroom!

[Sir Taliesin]

Do I believe in Magic? Nope. All it is, is someting we haven't stumbled across in science yet. I think that we haven't begun to explore the depths of the human brain yet. We have no idea what we are capable of. I read somewhere that we only use, on average, 11% of our brain. Well what does the other 89% do? If you want to find the root of "magic" look there.

I also believe that God grants talents (some of you might call it magic)to some people. I believe that God simply unlocks a part of their brain, How that talent is used by the individual determines whether they are good and evil. Some people that God has granted talent are mentioned in the Bible. Moses and Elijah come to mind rather quickly.

I do not believe in pre-destination. The Bible says even the most sinful man will be allowed into heaven if he truely repents his sin and accepts Christ and loves god.

[slicer15]

Originally posted by Mellagar: Though it might be mere coincidence, and many may think I am creating a false story but this is true. For six months, before September 11th, whenever I looked at a clock, randomly, the number 911 would be the time. It would happen perhaps 4 times a week, and after 9/11 it is still an irksome problem. I went for a bicycle ride a few weeks back, and not having looked at how many miles I had gone, when I stopped for water I looked down to see I had traveled 9.11 miles. When I was talking on the phone with my mother the other night, I happened to look up at the VCR clock and it read 9:11 PM, when I asked my mother she had the same time. So the clocks were not off.

Well, there are a lot of strange things about September the 11th...like the fact that, because of the American date system, "9/11" is the emergency number to call for emergency services. Uri also claimed to have seen 9/11 on the clock many times before the tragic event took place.

[ 05-07-2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: slicer15 ]