On patriotism

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by skywalker: Kaz, Nazi was a party not a nationality, I would not be offended if you ever said you were proud to be German! Mark

Niether would I!!!



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Sir Taliesin



If they take my gun can I still use my Axe?

[sylent]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: No. You are overestimating the frequency of such things in America. As Moni points out above, flag flying is relatively unusual, and I would wager that the majority of americans could not accurately sing the national anthem.

I am just taking notice of what I see on the news.
I think its probably mostly just a big steriotype, but thats just what I see on TV, and TV shows. I guess thats a really bad way of judging people, because I look at Neighbours, and its not at all like the average Australian. (yet another steriotype)

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"Watch your back"

[dominions]

We have a bit of a problem with Nationalism over here in England. We have a party called the BMP: British National Party. This bunch of racist bigots hide behind nationalism like a shield, using it as an excuse to attack (both verbally and physically) any non-british/non-white/non-christian.
Fortunately, most see these bunch for what they are.



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Hey! Like RPGs? See the DungeonCraft - RPG Game Maker on the Ironworks Gaming Forum

Originally posted by Kaz: Thank you Moni *wipes tear from eye* that is very inspiring, really! Thank you, really. Unfortunately it's bed-time here, after all I need to go to school tomorrow again (bah) G'night all!

Hey Kaz not all peoples of German descent believe that you cannot be proud as a nation... When I watched the Berlin wall come down, I saw people on both sides who were celebrating not just the collapse of the Soviet Empire, but also the reunification of a great people. Im mostly of German descent and Im proud of that, I do not associate being proud to have german ancestry with what the nazi's turned Germany into (with a great deal of help from Brittain and the USA who imposed horrible economic conditions on Germany after WW I)

You know, a lot of people put all the blame for the second world war onto Germany and Japan, but what they ignore are the economic pressures and indignities that were being put on the peoples of both nations which led them to willingly go along with the monstrous plans of the leaders. I really lament that they do not teach american history in the public schools anymore



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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

Originally posted by DEADMAN: I can see why Germany is a bit sensitive on the subject. I'm a history buff so when Germany reunited I celebrated with friends here, I just wish Prussia was a part of that, even though they got the rest of Germany into a lot of trouble. It was nice to see this nation that has strived to be a single nation unite. Without starting a war.. Just kidding I'm Korean and were still waiting to see how that works out. On the National anthem, like most people I remember it... in bits I have a horrible memory for lyrics. The ONLY hymn I remember in its entirety is the Marine Corps Hymn,but I would be stoned if I didn't. Plus I always liked America the Beautiful better [This message has been edited by DEADMAN (edited 09-12-2001).]

You know the words to the Marine Corps Hymn? Im impressed Most of the Marines I knew didn't course they had other tings to be concerned with at the time...like protecting my "Navy behind", whenever we would have those periodic attacks by the terrorist groups in Puerto Rico...which oddly enough the US papers never seemed to report.


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Disintigration is easy, If you really want to impress me, ReIntegrate it.

[This message has been edited by MagiK (edited 09-13-2001).]

[Zateel]

I remember when my son came home from kindergarten one day last year, and he not only recited the Pledge of Allegiance, but could also recite it in sign language! It was a wonderfully patriotic feeling seeing that.

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

I find this topic way too interesting to let it freefall ...

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So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Apart from its close and ambiguous relationship to nationalism and the particular German experience with that, both points I already explained here in earlier posts, I think one other major reason, and it might actually be the most important one, for my reserved attitude towards any kind of pariotism, is that it just tends to draw the focus to something rather abstract and almost "fictitious" which shouldn't be so much at the center of our attention anyway: the nation or rather the nation state.

I think it would be much more important to concern us more with and to care more about something much more concrete like individual people and their well-being.

It is often said that patriotic feelings are essential in motivating people to be less egoistical, to care and assume responsibility for the affairs of a larger community. While it might be true that patriotism at its best can provide for that, I still think that kind of altruistic behaviour can also be fuelled by much more basic feelings like compassion and a sense for justice as well as by the equally basic insight that only personal involvement can help to assure that the community one lives in functions more or less like one wants it to be.

I will admit though that historically the arrival of the modern nation state was probably essential in establishing the classic European welfare state as it provided the moral and ideological basis necessary for introducing a politics of redistribution on a national level. But as the welfare state seems to be in constant process of "restructuring" - or rather dismantling - anyway nowadays, IMHO its disappearance also entails the loss of the last - and maybe always only - valid justification for the existence of the classic nation state. Especially, as almost all the most urgent problems of our time have long outgrown the borders of the nation state and can only be solved on a international level anyway.

Well, I guess that has been my "rambling hour" for the day.

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So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

[DragonMage]

Originally posted by Ramon de Ramon y Ramon: I think it would be much more important to concern us more with and to care more about something much more concrete like individual people and their well-being.

And also to concentrate more on a sense of "global community" so it's not "me" (one country) against "you" (another country), it's "us" (the world) against "them" (anyone who wants to hurt others).

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"Allright! We'll call it a draw."

"I'm INVINCIBLE! ... You're a LOONEY!"

Dare to dream. Be bold enough to try.

The day we stop learning is the day we start dying!(c)

*Newly abducted - er, inducted - member of the HADB clan. Mage extraordinair.*