Hypnotism and Hypnotherapy...good, bad, or undecided?

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Yorick: Moni, I sure hope I didn't offend you with my view. What you are talking about is harmless enough, what yoou Lord Shield are talking about is what I would avoid. Inducing an automatic repsonse to a given situation. There are times when an abject aversion to hostility is a bad thing. Surely it is better to be in the frame of mind where the brain can weigh up the pro's and cons and make a decision based on the unique information at hand, rather than predetermined suggestion. So many variables exist in each given situation, that being "programmed", is little different from being a robot responding to each situation the same despite any changes. Man, some people get conditioned of their own accord as a result of negative circumstances - especially in childhood. There are many of us already unhealthily conflict shy. I am anti-habit/pro volition.

I know what you are saying here! I was doing some training with a friend of mine who is a martial artist. He knows alot of stuuf that Lord Shield has mentioned knowing as well. I began my basic training on hightned awarness of my surroundings, and how to automatiacally go into a defesive frame of mind. However, I have not had a chance to go back over there to train more, and so I am stuck in a defensive state. My next lessons were to reflect control of emotion and thought before action. Maybe I should have started there. Now, whenever someone surprises me, like from behind, or I open a door to find someone coming out at the same time, I immediately see this as an attack of some sort, and I pull into a defensive strike. Daily, I find myself in a postion to strike at whoever I encounter. My work associates think I am crazy! I need to get that next class in!


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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club

Originally posted by Yorick: Moni, I sure hope I didn't offend you with my view.

No offense was taken, Yorick! I just wanted to make it clear that I knew the difference between what Larry had brought up on the subject and what I had added as far as my knowledge of one aspect of hypnotherapy goes (self hypnosis) and my opinions of the other side of the coin (therapist induced hypnosis) are concerned.
I haven't had a problem going to sleep since I was 15 when I took on self hypnosis as a "cure" for my insomnia, except for the occasional period of time when I have had much to do and little time to do it in without time to unwind before the day's end and sleep seems like a waste of time, like I might miss something if I succumb to rest.

As far as therapist induced hypnosis being used in curing people of negative behaviours, I can see a use for it where someone may want to stop smoking or be more careful with their diet and things of that nature when their own will fails them to a point where they are endangering their health but the effects of such therapy should not be so long lasting that the people who use it as a cure are affected by their automated responses for the rest of their lives, like in the cases of people who want to lose weight. Such responses could be dangerous later on, in instances where their nutritional needs change and they would, as a result of these triggered responses, deprive themselves of needed nutrients.

I agree that we should be strong enough on our own to change these behaviours within ourselves, but unfortunately, many are not.
I am grateful that I took it upon myself to study self hypnosis techniques so that I could have the power to employ some of the methods to make positive changes within myself.
I think if Psychology were a required class on a H.S. level, as opposed to being optional for credits, we would have a lot more functional people in the world, simply by possessing knowledge, do we possess the means for change.



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Pets Need Love Too

[Earthdog]

Ok. I think I need to clarify a couple things here.

First of all for Kahn. I am originally from Dallas. I heard all about how a woman in Oklahoma got a letter from Robert Tilton Ministries, Addressed to her husband : Dear Mr. So n So,

God spoke to me and told me he is going to heal you today..... blah blah blah.

The poor man had been deceased for 6 months. When she called them to chew them out their reply was that someone must have forgotten to take him out of the computer. Her reply was: You said GOD SPOKE TO YOU today. Your letter didnt say anything about a computer. YOU ARE A FRAUD. YOU WILL HEAR FROM MY LAWYER VERY SOON.

She sued and I believe she was awarded $3.2 million. Perhaps you are familiar with the case.

Yoric, Im not trying to put down the Pentecostal religion in anyway. Im simply relaying an observation I made with my own two eyes. For most of my life I was raised in the Church Of Christ. I moved from Dallas Texas to Augusta Georgia and after a time I met a woman there and we became roommates since it was a LOT cheaper for me to rent a room from her than it was to keep the place I was in, and she really needed a renter to help her with her financial difficulties. The relationship we had was STRICTLY as friends.

I began going to church with her and to say the least it was very diferent than the way Id been brought up. We went to church just about every Sunday Tuesday and Thursday. We did miss the occasional service. No biggie. The minister was female. Didnt bother me. She would do just like the TelEvangalists and call people up to the front for healing. My roommate was one of the first to the front of the church EVERY time. She beileved that the healing was helping her and I didnt disagree with her. IF thats what she thinks maybe its true. Maybe its not but I wont argue with her beliefs. So I watched this every service we went to.

It was just like the shows on tv. "The lord says he wants you to be healed. SO HEAL!!!!!" with the slap on the forehead. most of the people had been though this and knew what was expected of them..... fall to the floor and convulse. When a newbie went to the front, they didnt fall like they were supposed to and the minsister would say "Do ya feel the power of the lord in ya??? ya do?? do ya feel healed???? well then move around some!!!!" At which point the person would stand there doing a jig because they didnt know what else to do.

I could see the frustration in the ministers eyes when someone didnt fall to the ground and flop around the way they were supposed to, but the show must go on.

Speaking of which, after going to this church for a few months, the minister announced that The Prophet Kenneth Hagan was coming to the church to do a revival. Instead of the week long revival Kenneth Hagan was going to be there for TWO whole weeks. She would talk about howgreat a man he was and how he would get so full of the spirit of the Lord that he wouldnt be able to speak. Hed have to get someone to speak for him. She talked about this EVERY service for almost 2 months.

Hagan comes to town. His band and singers are fantasic. They could rival any show in Las Vegas. They ask for donations 4 times a night. They get em. Third night of the revival Hagan stands up and starts talking. About how much money theyve made. He says that hes gota bible college in Oklahoma that costs $3.2 million a year to keep the doors open. He says his group usually makes about $12,000 per week and that they wont go to any church unless they are sure they can make that MINIMUM. But things were so good and people were SO generous in Augusta GA that theyd already made $59,000 in only 3 days. Shucks we're gonna stay another week.

By the time they left they had made $500,000. Augusta is one EXTREMELY wealthy town. There are really only 2 classes. The very rich and the very poor. A lot of rich people went to this church. No I dont hold anything against these people, but I think the money would have been better spent in community projects.

What got to me was the night Kenneth Hagan go so full of the "spirit of the Lord" that he couldnt speak. Which happened to be on night 13, right before the show was leaving town. Hagan started to say something and went "ACK" and looked around meaningfully. ack again and again and again. For TWENTY minutes. so he passes the microphone to someone else.... same thing. and again and again. This went on for almost 2 hours. Even the minister of the church got in on the act. I was disgusted.

IMO someone who is "SO FULL" of the spirit of the Lord wouldnt be able to STOP speaking about the Lord. It was pathetic. In fact it was just like one of the Comedy/Hypnotist acts I saw.

People had been waiting for months to see Hagan get SO FULL of the spirit of the Lord that he couldnt speak. Hagan saved it for the night before the show left town. Good strategy. Hold out on em. Yes they did all the speaking in tongues, got everyone in the church in on it. Gave lessons in how to do it. It wasnt pure emotion like you say Yorik (and Im not trying to fault the people in your church or belief) in this case it was on QUE. People start literally making the ZENA:WARRIOR PRINCESS battle cry "eyeyeyeyeyeyeyeyeye" on QUE.

It was an act, a show. They travel around doing the same thing week in week out. And they put on a fantastic show.

They never stay in one place for more than a week unless the profit is INCREDIBLE. Hagan said the last time they'd stayed in one place more than a week was 4 years prior to this. Thats got to tell ya something. They dont go tp poor churches. They go where they can make some serious CASH. Thats a fact.

After all my time in this church I no longer had doubts about whether they were frauds or not. I knew it.

They werent "full of the spirit of the Lord." They were full of crap. Frauds one and all. Im not saying they didnt believe in God. Who am I to say that??? But Im gonna tell ya one thing---- they were the definition of CAPITALISTS.

If you could get a job that made you and your buddies anywhere from $50,000 to $250,000 a week wouldnt you play the part????? YEP I know I would Take the money and run!!!!!


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THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!!!!!!!!

Larry, my friends wife got hypnotherapy to quit smokeing cigarettes. She quit after 1 session and has not smoked since. That was 2 years ago. Was it the therapy? I dont know but she is convinced that it was.

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*\Conan/*

[Jerome]

Belief in anything makes it powerful to that person.

*shrugs* personally, i think it *could* be effective, but i haven't read enough about it to make an informed descision.

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Originally posted by Larry_OHF: I know what you are saying here! I was doing some training with a friend of mine who is a martial artist. He knows alot of stuuf that Lord Shield has mentioned knowing as well. I began my basic training on hightned awarness of my surroundings, and how to automatiacally go into a defesive frame of mind. However, I have not had a chance to go back over there to train more, and so I am stuck in a defensive state. My next lessons were to reflect control of emotion and thought before action. Maybe I should have started there. Now, whenever someone surprises me, like from behind, or I open a door to find someone coming out at the same time, I immediately see this as an attack of some sort, and I pull into a defensive strike. Daily, I find myself in a postion to strike at whoever I encounter. My work associates think I am crazy! I need to get that next class in!

Yep - all familiar! The technique of awareness is Zanshin - I learnt it while being taught blind-fighting (Shield Style), and later on in Aikido - You need to get used to it rather than more classes though, I should think. Sounds like you did learn the techniques the wrong way round though



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In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is pimp.
http://lordraptor0.tripod.com/index.html

[Larry_OHF]

Here is an interesting question for you...
Do you think that some TV commercials really have subliminal advertising? You know, 1 out of every 60 shots displays a hidden message that you would not see, but if repeated over several times, your subconcious mind will begin to be affected by the message or picture you are are unknowingly being subjected to. I know that some commercials tend to have not-so-discreet ways of advertising, like showing sexy women and beer together. Therefore, your mind perceives pleasure with the beer. But what about other commercials, especially ones that focus on children. Have you ever had a child suddenly go.."I need that toy!", right after seeing it on TV, but if he would have seen it in the store before the commercial, he would not have noticed it?



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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club

[Larry_OHF]

Another point, taking something I said earlier about hidden frames within TV...Did you hear that the guy who drew The Little Mermaid was said to have lost his job after somebody took the movie frame by frame and discovered that 1 frame actually had the Little Mermaid drawn without the Shells in front of her breasts, but since it was just on 1 frame, nobody could have seen it go by that quickly. There was no comment from the defense as to why he did it.

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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club

[Earthdog]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Another point, taking something I said earlier about hidden frames within TV...Did you hear that the guy who drew The Little Mermaid was said to have lost his job after somebody took the movie frame by frame and discovered that 1 frame actually had the Little Mermaid drawn without the Shells in front of her breasts, but since it was just on 1 frame, nobody could have seen it go by that quickly. There was no comment from the defense as to why he did it.

Larry, I heard that too. Heres another one for you. In the Lion King there is a
part of the movie where flowers begin to swirl and cover the screen. If you watch it in frame by frame slow motion the flowers will spell out the word SEX which covers the whole screen and eventually is covered by other flowers.

The animators were pissed off at Disney for making them do scenes dozens of times to get them "perfect". In this case its simple corporate sabotage. But subliminal none the less.

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THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!!!!!!!!!!

[Larry_OHF]

Interesting.
I always wondered why I got so horny watching that movie !
Sorry, bad joke....

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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club