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Old 03-09-2002, 03:53 AM   #51
GEEK
The Magister
 

Join Date: January 31, 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 101
Lots of good replies here. In my earier respons I mentioned that we don't act but react and I guess I didn't say that I don't agree with that in my first post. I think the US or any country should act on proof not when it's citizens get killed.

Also the US has a terrible problem with finishing the job when they start something involving the military. We left every single war unfinished starting in Korea. I hope with this new effort we can finish, because if we don't there will be more terrorist attacks. When they consider the US as satan why would they stop if we just kill a bunch of them? They almost (I stress almost because I don't want to get flamed by people who want to be perfectionists) act like Hitler in that they think everyone who isn't like them should die. The only differance is they kill them in their own lands instead of bringing people to the Middle East to do it. Instead of gassing them they just use bombs and planes to do it. This might be a streatch but it's not that far off. They just haven't chosen a particular race it's just everyone but them.

I think some people will change their minds when these guys move on to England, Sweeden, and some other European contries and release bio-weapons, or bombs on the general population there and make 9-11 look weak. I would rather see this ended quickly then for more noncombatants to die because we gave up from world pressure. I would also guess that if they did do something like that to Europe we would see them begging us again like in WW1 and WW2 to come and pull their buts out of the fire. I am not trying to piss anyone off buit history has proven that a lot of people in the world suck, and when you give them power the abuse it. If you don't stop them quickly then it ALWAYS gets worse. Think how happy 6 million jews would have been if we had taken Hitler out fast instead of waiting until it affected each of our countries in turn before getting involved.

[ 03-09-2002: Message edited by: GEEK ]

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Old 03-09-2002, 10:17 AM   #52
John D Harris
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Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
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GEEK, I like the way you think. Please tell me you are from the south, I'm getting tired of agreeing with the Yankees, and Californians Hale, I got a reputation to uphold
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Old 03-09-2002, 10:37 AM   #53
fable
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Join Date: March 17, 2001
Location: Where I am.
Posts: 1,089
quote:
Originally posted by GEEK:
Also the US has a terrible problem with finishing the job when they start something involving the military. We left every single war unfinished starting in Korea.


Not to rush in and defend the US (which IMO has made more peactime foreign policy mistakes than could be chronicled in an encyclopedia), but this isn't quite accurate. We entered Korea under a UN mandate, not as a war, and we achieved the UN-desired objective of halting the planned invasion of South Korea by the North. That was the goal, and that was achieved, as I recall.

Vietnam was a big mistake in every fashion. It was finished, and would have been finished sooner, with our withdrawal, if Nixon and Kissinger hadn't decided to stall negotiations in order to give Tricky Dick another platform for his try at a second term in office. All this is documented on the White House tapes, too. (IMO, Kissinger should be tried for war crimes. A lot of boys from around the world died thanks to those two.)

We invaded Granada and Panama after American citizens were threatened, finished our operations there, and got out. The question of whether such actions were justified is moot, under your question.

Where Kuwait is concerned, the nation requested military assistance at the UN. We went in at the head of a group of nations, and did the job as requested. Note, we did finish things, again, according to UN mandate. Whether this was enough, here as in Korea, is not the fault of the US, but should perhaps be considered in regarding the effectiveness of the UN as it is currently structured.

I hope with this new effort we can finish, because if we don't there will be more terrorist attacks.

Don't hold your breath for a finishline, because there won't be one. Terrorist attacks have been occuring for thousands of years, and gone under all sorts of names--revolutionaries used them on British troops and Hessian mercenaries (bad idea, that, hiring out to deal with the Colonies) during the US War of Independence. They were used on a broad scale and with a viciousness that matches anything moderns might have done (given their limited funds and the weapons available) during the American Civil War, particularly in Kansas, Missouri and Nebraska.

I'm getting far afield, here; but my point is that terrorism is endemic to human society, and will occur whenever an underprivileged group feels that all its other methods of recourse have been exhausted, and that injustices are immense. Terrorism is not an act of joy; it is an act proclaiming outrage at presumed crimes, whether objectively accurate, or not. And I question that simply killing terrorists will deal with terrorism. Oh, it needs to be done, definitely, and will complete regret. But the root causes of terrorism are not being addressed, because that gets into the messy area of looking into how foreign governments we support are handling problems of poverty, ignorance, sickness, and basically empowerment.

[ 03-09-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

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Old 03-09-2002, 10:52 PM   #54
GEEK
The Magister
 

Join Date: January 31, 2002
Location: USA
Posts: 101
John D. Yup I am in Mem, TN. I was raised in central GA though for most of my life.

Fable, I think we can make a differance it is just a matter of commiting to it for the long term.

As far as Korea went I guess I should have made it clear that I ment if we left the communists to rule in North Korea then we didn't finish the job.

Gen. George S Pattan had the right Idea when he suggested we keep on going after taking Germany out and move on to fight Russia. He thought we had a chance then when they were strung out and weaker from fighting Germany and could be taken easier then later. Granted it never happened but the Cuban missle crisis could have been an actual launch of a nuke, and communism could have been weakened if we would have done something then. I guess so far the only thing that came from communism that is greatly effecting us now is that the Taliban is more trained and armed then they could have been if the USSR had been killed after WW2.
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Old 03-11-2002, 01:37 PM   #55
MagiK
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Posts: n/a
quote:
Originally posted by AzureWolf:


Its a miracle
Actually thats exactly why I dont like the idea. So infact we not only agree but we agree for the same reasons...scary [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img]


Well despite my occasionally rabid spewing against your philosophies, I still think you aren't all bad
 
 


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