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Old 09-21-2001, 08:27 PM   #1
Rikard
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First of all I'm a passivist, I think that violance should be avoided at any time. No matter what happend.

Now The USA have been attacked by a Terrorist. Who attacked them is yet unknown but they SUSPECT bin laden.
I watched the news this morning (one of the main reasons why i came late AGAIN today) and i saw Bush's speach. He wants to attack Afganistan if they do not deliver Bin Laden to him and to be honest i think this is a bit to harch.
First of all, What is the use of militairy attack? there's only one situation where militairy attack is acually succesful and that is when you try to conquer land which is not the case here. No here Violance is used as pressure
But who is going to give in to violance? The taliban will only hold a greater wraith towards the US and Bin Laden is not going to be delived to the US.

And what has violance done for the US in history?
first of all Vietnam, they killed 2,5 million vietnamese and lost 56,000 of their own. Yet this is seen as a great defeat and well what amerika tried to get through violence did not succeed. The gulfwar. Did Sadam hussain leave? nope another unsuccesul violent attack. same with Kosovo.
Also Amerika creates it's own opponents
Hitler, Sadam, Bin Laden all were helped to power by the US and turned to the US and they could have known that.

Violence will not solve the problem. I think it would be better if we would actually listen to the Taliban , think about the reasonablity of their demands and then think weither it is worth it to get Bin Laden, and i have to agree with the Taliban that they want to see proof of Bin Ladens guilt first.
And when it's inevitible, let the CIA or FBI or KGB or SAS get Bin Laden because a huge militairy attack is not going to help..

"Either you are with us or with the terrorists"
is a frase i think is a Demand to us. We have tyo help the united states or we have to be against. and this is something i don;t like. I think everybopdy is entitled to his own opinion and when a country thinks it's better to be neutral; give them the right to do so. Swiss has always been neutral in any conflict so why do they have to make a choise all of a sudden???

another thing that scared me was the extreem nationalism that manifests now in the US. Where the people of any other country to go otside and scream the name of their own country and constanly sing their national anthem i'm sure the US would consider it to be dangerous and i think this nationism is going a bit overboard. love for your country ok but please remember the fact that no nation agrees with what has happend.

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Old 09-21-2001, 08:46 PM   #2
Grand-Ranger
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Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Everywhere I wanna go its already where I am,cause I am already there
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Well first of all, what has violance done for the US?

Stoped Naziism

Stoped Northen Korea Communatist from taking over Sounther Korea.


Veitnam you are right.

If we did not create Hitler as an oopent you would be speaking German right now. If we do not launch this attack Terrisom could very well take over the world.

If we do not attack Afganistan bin Laden will do more attack, and will other Terriost. With out thinking anything will happen to them.

Its the TaliBans fault for not giving him to us. Now they will be bombed.

"You are with us, or you are with the terriost"


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Old 09-21-2001, 08:52 PM   #3
Silver Cheetah
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Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: Brighton, East Sussex, UK
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grand-Ranger:
Well first of all, what has violance done for the US?

Stoped Naziism

Stoped Northen Korea Communatist from taking over Sounther Korea.


Veitnam you are right.

If we did not create Hitler as an oopent you would be speaking German right now. If we do not launch this attack Terrisom could very well take over the world.

If we do not attack Afganistan bin Laden will do more attack, and will other Terriost. With out thinking anything will happen to them.

Its the TaliBans fault for not giving him to us. Now they will be bombed.

"You are with us, or you are with the terriost"


It's not the Taliban who are going to be bombed, though, is it? All sensible Taliban with half a brain have places to go that are well out of bomb range, as is, I am sure, Osima bin Laden. These people are not idiots, you know!

It is ordinary Afghans who are going to be bombed. Those same Afghans who the Taliban have already starved, beaten, burnt, tortured, you name it. That's why they've been fleeing the country in their thousands and fetching up on islands off Australia.

Lucky old them, eh?




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Old 09-21-2001, 09:02 PM   #4
jabidas
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Join Date: March 14, 2001
Location: Agharti. Mountains of Madness
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Extremism of any sort is bad but this black and white view of things in the US right now is reminiscant of the terrorist thinking. According to them America = evil. therefore all Americans and allies must be destryed. Now flip that around and you have a George W Bush speech. The things that I hear coming out latly are scary with the taking the muzzle off the F.B.I and the C.I.A and taking the ban off assasinations, how can we claim to live in a democratic society when it is going to be completly controlled by secret organisations like this. I honestly think they should step back and have a long look at it all instead of rushing in and taking revenge and creating more terrorists for later even if it is less politicaly sound.

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Old 09-21-2001, 09:05 PM   #5
Istaron
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Join Date: June 16, 2001
Location: Uppland
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grand-Ranger:
Well first of all, what has violance done for the US?

Stoped Naziism

Stoped Northen Korea Communatist from taking over Sounther Korea.


Veitnam you are right.

If we did not create Hitler as an oopent you would be speaking German right now. If we do not launch this attack Terrisom could very well take over the world.

If we do not attack Afganistan bin Laden will do more attack, and will other Terriost. With out thinking anything will happen to them.

Its the TaliBans fault for not giving him to us. Now they will be bombed.

"You are with us, or you are with the terriost"


You did NOT save the world during World War 2. Sovjet did just as much, perhaps even more, and still they were damaged by war.

Most Koreans think you didn't do them any favor... all the landmines left, and stuff.

You aren't sane if you beleive another another war against the middle east would solve anything. You have no real proof that it was Bin Laden.
Still, you bomb Afghanistan for not handing him over to you. You know what that will cause?
It will cause mr Ladin to smile in the bunker he is hiding in, knowing that by killing innocent people, he's armies will grow. Then he can do even more terrorist-attacks.

And what about the rest of the arabian world? Do you really think they will say "Fine, do whatever you want"? No, they will start Jihad to defend themselves. The thing Husein is waiting for. You guys will be veeery sorry if he attacks. If he can use all his toxic gases against his own people, he will have even less trouble with using it over NYC. Sure, USA will retaliate, but the people living in New York won't see that...

And why can't you be neutral in this? Switzerland has always been neutral, and Sweden is considered that too, more or less.
You ARE for democratic goverments huh? Well, then let people think and beleive in what they want to without judging them.

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Old 09-21-2001, 09:10 PM   #6
Harkoliar
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Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Philippines, but now Harbor City Sydney
Age: 40
Posts: 5,556
just a quick note of insight...

i have one little question for all of you...

what PROMPT Bin Laden to attack the US anyway?? all of you should go down to the real reasons why they are here in the first place in order to understand thier actions...

it says in the news that Bin Laden was trained by the CIA (which was an irony) and was ALLIES during the war against Russia (or was it USSR?)... what made him hate the US so much?? (i dont think its jealousy..)

another insight is... (one that was given to me by my friend, it was an interesting concept no matter how inhuman it is so pls dont get mad at me) the middle east is suffering with poverty, unjust restrictions imposed by the UN (like the one of IRAQ) which led to the UNTOLD hundreds (maybe thousands) of deaths from hunger, disease and other thingies... and this one bombing is thier cry of protest of thier sufferings they are enduring now (although i dont agree with the means). if they didnt bomb the WTC, they will continue living in a pathetic condition and will even deteriorate in the future...

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Old 09-21-2001, 09:29 PM   #7
Rikard
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Nice to have you back Zor

I'm glad there are some people who see it from my point of view aswell
Terrorism should be destroyed but violence is not the way

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Old 09-21-2001, 09:33 PM   #8
Grand-Ranger
Galvatron
 

Join Date: March 29, 2001
Location: Everywhere I wanna go its already where I am,cause I am already there
Posts: 2,130
Quote:
Originally posted by Istaron:
You did NOT save the world during World War 2. Sovjet did just as much, perhaps even more, and still they were damaged by war.

Most Koreans think you didn't do them any favor... all the landmines left, and stuff.

You aren't sane if you beleive another another war against the middle east would solve anything. You have no real proof that it was Bin Laden.
Still, you bomb Afghanistan for not handing him over to you. You know what that will cause?
It will cause mr Ladin to smile in the bunker he is hiding in, knowing that by killing innocent people, he's armies will grow. Then he can do even more terrorist-attacks.

And what about the rest of the arabian world? Do you really think they will say "Fine, do whatever you want"? No, they will start Jihad to defend themselves. The thing Husein is waiting for. You guys will be veeery sorry if he attacks. If he can use all his toxic gases against his own people, he will have even less trouble with using it over NYC. Sure, USA will retaliate, but the people living in New York won't see that...

And why can't you be neutral in this? Switzerland has always been neutral, and Sweden is considered that too, more or less.
You ARE for democratic goverments huh? Well, then let people think and beleive in what they want to without judging them.


Er..Did I say we saved the world??

*looks over post* nope I didnt

I am not giving all the credit to america for WW2 I am saying that in some cases it is nessccary and somtimes a good thing for violance.

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So if in the forest look behind you, because that where the ranger is going to be

Grand-Jester of Laghing Hyenas
Messenger of the Emerald Dragon

May a pregnant yak chew on your ear for all eternity.
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Old 09-21-2001, 09:37 PM   #9
Rikard
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L'Etas Uni ont supporté L'Allemange of Hitler to get rid of the Sovjet thread
When Hitler turned out to be a greater thread and when Japan (or Japon if you wanna talk french) attack Pearl Harbor, That was when the United states turned around

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Old 09-21-2001, 09:37 PM   #10
Yorick
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Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
Quote:
Originally posted by Silver Cheetah:
It's not the Taliban who are going to be bombed, though, is it? All sensible Taliban with half a brain have places to go that are well out of bomb range, as is, I am sure, Osima bin Laden. These people are not idiots, you know!

It is ordinary Afghans who are going to be bombed. Those same Afghans who the Taliban have already starved, beaten, burnt, tortured, you name it. That's why they've been fleeing the country in their thousands and fetching up on islands off Australia.

Lucky old them, eh?


Silver Cheetah, I hardly think bombs will be dropped. There is nothing to bomb. The military are not stupid. I reckon they'll go in and get him.

Then again.....


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