Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

[Luvian]

Same with people who disable right click on their pages so you can't save their images. Not only is there a dozen other ways to save them, but if all else failed you could just take a screenshot of the page and crop it. As long as you distribute something there will be ways for people to get it illegally. It is unavoidable.

[dplax]

Another interesting question is geographic restriction of content. For example, episodes of certain TV series can be watched online *if* you are in the US. As far as I can remember they even put advertisements in the middle of the episodes. I really hate adverts on TV, but I'd watch the episode, even if the adverts were in the middle and there was no skip feature, because I'm interested by the episode.

But I can't watch it...not legally that is. Of course one could use a proxy and mask an IP address, but in most countries that is illegal. You can also wait a couple hours after the episode has aired and then ... (I probably shouldn't mention exactly what, this forum has rules of not discussing exactly how to get illegal content, not that most people don't know how to do it...)

Does it stop me from buying the DVDs of the series when they come out? No.

I know why they do the geographical filtering. It's because of the contracts they have with TV channels in other countries who also want to insert their own adverts into the middle of episodes and make some more money off it. But I'm in France...and I don't care about French versions of TV series...I'd never watch English Tv shows on French TV.

You know what...I'll admit to having seen a TV episode which aired last week in the US and is in no way available in Europe (not that that wasn't obvious from my post in the Lost thread). And yes I'm planning on buying the DVD when it comes out, because I feel that the creators even though they are already rich off this show, deserve my contribution for the work they have done.

Similarly...if I were to download a music CD that comes out in the US on the 19th of a month and then buy it when it comes out in Europe on the 24th...it's illegal, but I'm not actually causing the artist or the publisher any monetary loss. So why have all these stupid rules?

[Variol (Farseer) Elmwood]

Originally Posted by dplax And suppose that eventually someone could come up with a method with which streamed music couldn't be ripped (which won't happen)...nothing would stop a user from putting a casette recorder next to his PC speakers and just record the song as it plays...

That's one of the ways they get movies on the internet now. They tape it onto a camcorder, right in the theatre!

We went to the advance screening of a movie last year. My wife gets tickets through the radio station she works for at times. They checked everybody as they were going in. I asked if people brought weapons into the theatre. They told me they were looking for recording devices. I felt a little foolish, but I would never even think of that stuff.

I know that co-workers download and share this stuff all the time. I actually reported it to the RCMP. They did not do anything. This was about 4 years ago. I have been working at home for 3 years now, so I 'm not privy to a lot of what goes on there anymore.

[dplax]

From what I've seen, leaked copies are much more common nowadays than those recorded directly in the cinema. Leaked copies come out much earlier...

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Luvian "...But how many people, in the real world, are going to be tempted to steal a few bucks? Some, yes — precious few of whom, I suspect, read much of anything. But the truth is that most people are no more tempted to steal a few dollars than they are to spend their lunch hour panhandling for money on the streets. Partly because they don't need to, but mostly because it's beneath their dignity and self-respect. The only time that mass scale petty thievery becomes a problem is when the perception spreads, among broad layers of the population, that a given product is priced artificially high due to monopolistic practices and/or draconian legislation designed to protect those practices. But so long as the "gap" between the price of a legal product and a stolen one remains both small and, in the eyes of most people, a legitimate cost rather than gouging, 99% of them will prefer the legal product." --Eric Flint

Proven to be completely incorrect.
Again, read "Freakonomics" before we continue this discussion.
Statistics show people will steal the petty far more than they will the important.
The book shows how people will steal a cheap Donut, rather than a car.
http://freakonomicsbook.com/

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by dplax And suppose that eventually someone could come up with a method with which streamed music couldn't be ripped (which won't happen)...nothing would stop a user from putting a casette recorder next to his PC speakers and just record the song as it plays...

Sure people do that with cinemas and cameras.
The quality is the issue then.
The problem with peer to peer audio theft has been zero quality reduction.

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by Luvian Same with people who disable right click on their pages so you can't save their images. Not only is there a dozen other ways to save them, but if all else failed you could just take a screenshot of the page and crop it. As long as you distribute something there will be ways for people to get it illegally. It is unavoidable.

The key is distribution.

If you make recording completely non-financial it will go out the window, and only live music will remain (you can't steal the live experience, a movie doesn't compare), alongside old songs or commercials that ARE paid for.

I myself will not produce artists who plan to give away their music for free, as how am I, as a producer, going to get paid? Producers get a percentage of song sales, not live performances or merch or song plays on radio etc.

So that's at least one producer with 20 years experience "off the market" for that kind of situation so to speak, and there are many more with waaaay more experience who would not.

Which is why more and more composer/producers are working to create 30 sec commercials rather than albums. Because they can actually feed their family from it.

Piracy is a cancer that will kill the thing it's feeding from.

See the thing stupid children don't understand is that a single person doesn't normally make an album. An entire industry was built up around the creation of the music that were paid from advanced album sales and only album sales. A producer, a recording engineer, a mastering engineer, a mixing engineer, an assistant producer, a session musician or three (or more).

None of these are "the artist" who is being "ripped off by the record company".
They are all professionals paid well by the same evil record company, and due to specialisation and years of experience, created quality work.

Now of course music will evolve, and "do it yourself garage" like the White Stripes for example, has it's merits.

But not everyone likes to hear a drummer with 3 years experience banging out on a poorly recorded drum kit. Some listeners actually like to hear a drummer with 30 years experience playing a nicely tuned kit, recorded by a person who's recorded drums for 30 years, with all the nuances and subtleties such experience captures.

Who knows what will happen?

Orchestra's and operas were once "pop" but have been priced into a rich-only experience.

Is that what will happen with recordings? Only rich people will be able to create quality recordings just for themselves? Like a commissioned artwork, or musicians that only played for Kings?

All I know is, piracy has changed all the rules.

[SpiritWarrior]

The freakonomics book (ironically) is not free. Was there a particular section you were referring to (such as the blogspot with info. published online) or are you simply recommending people purchase this book?

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by dplax Another interesting question is geographic restriction of content. For example, episodes of certain TV series can be watched online *if* you are in the US. As far as I can remember they even put advertisements in the middle of the episodes. I really hate adverts on TV, but I'd watch the episode, even if the adverts were in the middle and there was no skip feature, because I'm interested by the episode. But I can't watch it...not legally that is. Of course one could use a proxy and mask an IP address, but in most countries that is illegal. You can also wait a couple hours after the episode has aired and then ... (I probably shouldn't mention exactly what, this forum has rules of not discussing exactly how to get illegal content, not that most people don't know how to do it...) Does it stop me from buying the DVDs of the series when they come out? No. I know why they do the geographical filtering. It's because of the contracts they have with TV channels in other countries who also want to insert their own adverts into the middle of episodes and make some more money off it. But I'm in France...and I don't care about French versions of TV series...I'd never watch English Tv shows on French TV. You know what...I'll admit to having seen a TV episode which aired last week in the US and is in no way available in Europe (not that that wasn't obvious from my post in the Lost thread). And yes I'm planning on buying the DVD when it comes out, because I feel that the creators even though they are already rich off this show, deserve my contribution for the work they have done. Similarly...if I were to download a music CD that comes out in the US on the 19th of a month and then buy it when it comes out in Europe on the 24th...it's illegal, but I'm not actually causing the artist or the publisher any monetary loss. So why have all these stupid rules?

Territorial issues are important, for revenue generated from imported art can sponsor local art. It's not just about the single artist getting their money, but seeing local artists encouraged to create relevant work.

Otherwise, US culture will run rampant over say, French culture, due to the sheer size of the US, and the resultant revenue it has at it's disposal.

It becomes a vicious cycle. Think about how large the US entertainment industry is, how much money it has, how large it's domestic market is.
Can an unknown Slovakian artist actually compete IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY, against the machine driving Beyonce?

You need to demand the shows from entertainment providers in your "territory" so they set up a fair deal with the content providers. Money gained from sales in Slovakia, then goes back into Slovakian made music/tv/movies for example.

Do you see?

[Yorick]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior The freakonomics book (ironically) is not free. Was there a particular section you were referring to (such as the blogspot with info. published online) or are you simply recommending people purchase this book?

I am recommending people actually purchase the book yes, not the blogspot.
And it's a pun on FREAK, not Free. Freak economics, not free economics.
Many of the situations stats prove are counter-intuitive and unexpected.
Such as the Donut theft. "It's only a Donut" = Donut seller goes out of business, and no more Donuts.