Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Man, this thread has mushroomed. Hmmm. Why did you say how wrong I am then proceed to post an article showing the strict levels of gun control in 3 European countries that actually do allow guns (with great exceptions) and that talks about how it's becoming even more stricter in these countries, so much so that some Olympians have to go overseas because they are forbidden to even perform target practice in said locations...? It seemed like you were making a point but the article made the opposite point. Which, coincidentally, was my point to begin with. How Europe deal with guns, banned or very restrictive if even that. And that link is supportive of this.

Which said article entails how guns are in the hands of common folks in Europe, and not banned. That is *why* I used that article. To allow others who might think guns are banned . Which is in fact, not the case.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Ilander First off...someday, when I buy my .270 with a scope, I'd love to match it with your SKS Now, as to the "hoody-whos"...how many of them are smart enough to start an international gun smuggling operation in the US to bring in guns from elsewhere? None, right? Well, you decrease the supply of Average Joe's Guns, you decrease the supply that Hoody J Who steals from...and as such, you keep them out of criminals hands. It's about as good as we can get...because, Average Joe doesn't want to kill people, isn't necessarily extremely proficient with his firearm, and might get it stolen from under his nose with relatively little trouble. Guns are great...they give mankind mastery of his(her) environment. As always, though, once that mastery is achieved---and it has been---it's time to grow up, decide if that power for mastery should be restricted, and then act.

A .270 is bit more than an 'ole rickety squirrel gun, so we might have to adjust the firing techniques, and limit the total range to about 175m. And Iron Sights!

You make a decent point, let us drop the ax on gun manufacturers, who have over the years of greed created the said lucrative market. Limit total production back to 6 shooters, single action, single cylinder load. That way we will not infringe upon the constitution.

[Chewbacca]

Man, this thread has mushroomed.

Fitting shape for an issue that's over-blown .

Seriously guns, even handguns are widely available and in no way even close to being banned, yet the outrage is like they already took them all away.

Not even mention the sensational, almost propaganda-like thread title which implies the FEDS R cuming for yur gunz!1111!1111!!!! No they are not- Guns are not illegal, nor is the government going door to door across America confiscating them. As noted by VR there is ample political will to keep them legal.

An opinion i came across- A laymans reading of the ENTIRE 2nd Amendment leads me to believe that arms regulation is in the best interest of a both a free State and an armed populace. Making the argument that so called "gun control" is in fact mandated by the 2nd amendment in equal amount to the right to bear arms. This is also the road of compromise which provides guns being legally available while we maintain the best methods to achieve comprehensive registry as well as safeguard public safety.


In the spirit of this compromise I would love to see consumer/voter demand for better technology to keep a stolen guns from ever being used again after the theft. We can certainly achieve something like this technological kill switch.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca So, Felix is VA Tech GW Bush's fault? srysly??? Your not helping your cause.

The main weapon used in that event was a Glock 17, a pocket version of the full sized service auto. Which was not banned in 94, would not be banned today, and is one of the preferred styles / types that are in question of this very article.

Blame? Sure there is plenty of blame to go around. Firstly, the manufacturer of said weapon. Secondly, the agency responsible for tracking an enormous increase of magazine and ammunition purchases by said perpetrator, etc... Thirdly, the timeline in which the event spanned.

If the agencies in place were doing what they are receiving a salary to complete, then this could have been thwarted, as well as many other events of this nature.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin Which said article entails how guns are in the hands of common folks in Europe, and not banned. That is *why* I used that article. To allow others who might think guns are banned . Which is in fact, not the case.

But they are not in the hands of common folk in Europe. Most European countries either ban or heavily restrict them. I have lived in two of the three countries mentioned in that article. Try get a gun in Britain, and you tell me if it's easy. It is an exhaustive process, riddled with supervision, overseeing and legal application. You most likely would be refused. There are no gunshops on street corners like in the USA, and they are not "promoted" like they are in America, nor is there anything in their consitutional laws admitting them to citizens. Basically, it is very rare to know meet anyone who owns a gun in the United Kingdom. Unlike in the USA, where most people either have one or have access to one.

Most families in the US will have a handgun somewhere in the house, the same way you would have a can-opener in the house. They've become commonplace in the US but they are NOT this way in Europe. Saying they are legal in Europe can give the false impression that they're easily accessible and that everyone and their mother can go get one. Not the case at all. In America you can gpurchase a gun on the grounds of self-defence. You cannot own a gun for this reason in the UK. In fact, the proceedings to get your hands on a legal gun in Britain are so thorough and scrutinizing that most people don't bother. This is how it should be in the US at the very least, if they're not fully banned.

So, to reiterate, and to make sure there are no misconceptions about life outside of the United States. Using the UK example again, you will not find people strolling around with guns in Britain. Nor will you find a gun in the majority of houses you visit. Nor will you find it easy to locate a gunshop in your local city, because there are none since everyday people aren't granted the right to own them by default and no customers equals no profit equals no shops. Look here for the process:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...United_Kingdom

To obtain a firearm certificate, the police must be convinced that a person has "good reason" to own each gun, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, gun licenses are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting or work-related reasons for owning a gun. Since 1946, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a gun. The current licensing procedure involves: positive verification of identity, two referees of verifiably good character who have known the applicant for at least two years (and who may themselves be interviewed and/or investigated as part of the certification), approval of the application by the applicant's own family doctor, an inspection of the premises and cabinet where guns will be kept and a face-to-face interview by a Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) also known as a Firearms Liaison Officer (FLO). A thorough background check of the applicant is then made by Special Branch on behalf of the firearms licensing department. Only when all these stages have been satisfactorily completed will a license be issued. Any person who has spent more than three years in prison is automatically banned for life from obtaining a gun licence.[7] Similarly, persons applying for licences with recent, serious mental health issues will also be refused a certificate. Any person holding a gun licence must comply with strict conditions regarding such things as safe storage. These storage arrangements are checked by the police before a license is first granted, and on every renewal of the licence. A local police force may impose additional conditions on ownership, over and above those set out by law. Failure to comply with any of these conditions can mean forfeiture of the gun licence and surrender of any firearms to the police. The penalty for possession of a prohibited firearm without a certificate is currently a mandatory minimum five year prison sentence and an uncapped fine.[8] In addition, the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 increased restrictions on the use, ownership, sale and manufacture of both airguns and imitation firearms.[9]

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca In the spirit of this compromise I would love to see consumer/voter demand for better technology to keep a stolen guns from ever being used again after the theft. We can certainly achieve something like this technological kill switch.

Yes, but if we did they'd just hack it. You can unlock phones, I imagine it'd be the same with guns. Then again, if the solution was something in the bio-degradable area, or some kinda non lethal self-destruct, which would render a stolen gun useless beyond repair. Just thinking out loud.

[Ilander]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin A .270 is bit more than an 'ole rickety squirrel gun, so we might have to adjust the firing techniques, and limit the total range to about 175m. And Iron Sights! You make a decent point, let us drop the ax on gun manufacturers, who have over the years of greed created the said lucrative market. Limit total production back to 6 shooters, single action, single cylinder load. That way we will not infringe upon the constitution.

Pretty sure you'd win, though...something about official training, plus the fact that the vision in my right eye is just not what it was when I was a teenager...I miss having better than 20/20 vision.

Stupid astigmatism.

Iron sights, indeed, though!

[John D Harris]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca Your entilted to your opinions, but please stop mis-quoting the Constitution. And please stop declaring your opinions about the Constitution as if they were fact. And both you and John can also stop addressing me like I'm some dumbass who needs to be shown their rear-end. Maybe then we can have a reasonable discussion. Otherwise welcome to being ignored. P.S. Poker is neither defined as gambling nor illegal under Federal Law. P.P.S. Marijuana is not illegal in my state and the use of plants as a sacrament is a Federally protected right.

If we are mis quoting the Consitution then please provide a single court case that supports your position. One single case where the U.S. Supreme Court, holds to the Milita line of reasoning. It should be easy after all we got over 200 years of history to find a single case.

And as far as my adressing you, I've been adressing the position and the thoughts. But if'n you want me to start adressing you like a Dumbass (your words not mine) Well I reckon I can do that, just to make you feel good. After all I don't want you feeling bad. So how about me Starting with quit the poor pittiful me they are picking on me crap, and man up. How about them apples bubba?

[Firestormalpha]

OK, so, where's Bungleau when you need someone to get the popcorn.

Seriously though, not to sound like a mod (though I know it will) John D, lets not flamebait here. A decently heated debate, fine, but not famebaiting.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by John D Harris If we are mis quoting the Consitution then please provide a single court case that supports your position. One single case where the U.S. Supreme Court, holds to the Milita line of reasoning. It should be easy after all we got over 200 years of history to find a single case. And as far as my adressing you, I've been adressing the position and the thoughts. But if'n you want me to start adressing you like a Dumbass (your words not mine) Well I reckon I can do that, just to make you feel good. After all I don't want you feeling bad. So how about me Starting with quit the poor pittiful me they are picking on me crap, and man up. How about them apples bubba?

Huh? The posts in the thread are full of weak, scornful, hyperbolic crap and I called the crap out and shut the crap down. Best part is now I don't hafta see no more crap because you're out!