Rogue/Fighter how many levels

[psycho wench]

I started a second game after reaching chapter 2 with my pure fighter and this time picked a rogue with the intention of multiclassing with fighter. The question is how many levels of rogue should I get before I switch to fighter??

my rogue stats are:

Human, True Neutral
lv 3

str 12
dex 16
con 14
int 14
wis 8
char12

ac 13 with nothing equiped
16 with everything

hp 24/24

I use a short sword and a dagger

[psycho wench]

btw I don't have any expansion packs installed just the offical 1st release version

[robertthebard]

I'd take just 4 lvls of fighter then, for that build. Let's you get a few extra feats, including weapon specialization, and since your human, and your highest class will be ignored for xp's sake, I'd go ahead and get em early, and take them all at once.
Side note on this, does any body know if you take the four lvls of fighter scattered around in a build, do the feats still come at the same fighter lvls? er, this isn't very clear, but as a fighter, you get like 5 feats in 4 lvls. Would you get them if you didn't take 4 lvls of fighter right together? I've never tried, so I have no idea.

[Legolas]

You'll want at least four levels in the Fighter class. That allows you to have 4 attacks per round instead of 3 when you reach level 20, and it lets you take a weapon specialization feat if you choose to specialize.
EDIT: No, it doesn't matter when you take your fighter levels or if you scatter them. The same goes for sneak attack, and spell levels, and so on.

Taking more fighter levels will give you a better attack bonus and more combat feats.
Taking more rogue levels will give you a better sneak attack, and more skillpoints.

For the rogue-heavy build, a 16/4 combination is the most natral way to go. This gives you all the fighter levels you need for the above benefits, as well as 3 special Rogue feats and an 8d6 sneak attack. For the rogue feats, the best choices are likely Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind and Crippling Strike.
The 13/7 build is not one to try; the extra figher levels offer almost no benefits over the 16/4 one beyond extra hitpoints and you lose some rogue ability.
The 10/10 build is quite balanced in this case, and Improved Evasion is again the rogue feat to take. It works wonders against most traps and elemental magic both.
Then there's the 4/16 build which is notable because at that point you get the maximum attack bonus possible, and it equals that of a pure fighter.

The friendly thing about the rogue/fighter combination is that there is no perfect time to stop, as fighter benefits come every even level, rogue ones every odd. The 16/4, 10/10 and 4/16 combinations all come with calculated benefits but really, anything goes well enough here.

A nice combination with all these blends is the (Improved) Knockdown feat with Sneak Attack abilities. Knocking an enemy down lets you hit them for extra damage even without hiding.

A likely problem will come from undead and others who are immune to sneak attacks and/or critical hits. You'll have to resort to traps, scrolls, wands, or simply bashing here. A blunt weapon specialisation might help but is not guaranteed to be the answer to your problems.

Equipment-wise, you can go for heavy armor or light, a shield, an extra weapon or a large one. It doesn't matter much except that if you are going to use weapons which can be 'finessed', you're better off raising your dexterity attribute than you are increasing your strength.
You can always remove armor and shields when you want to perform thieving skills outside of combat.

You can save skillpoints over levels. You get 5 skillpoints with each fighter level, and 11 with each rogue level. You could save spare ones from your fighter class and use them on rogue specific skills when you take a rogue level later on, for example.
And on that note, you don't have to take all your rogue levels now, and the fighter levels after. You can take 8 rogue levels now for example, then 6 fighter ones, then another rogue level, then 4 fighter ones, and then another one for rogue. The main benefit there is that you can put your saved skillpoints where you want them.

[ 07-19-2005, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: Legolas ]

[Nightowl2]

The only reason to take off armor outside of combat is for stealth skills, since heavy armors carry stiff penalties. However, disarming traps can be done in heavy armor with no penalties. Ditto for searching out traps.

Yeah, undead, golems, and a few other critters can be a problem for a rogue as they don't suffer crits or sneak damage. That's why fighter levels are a good thing. So are Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack for avoiding damage.

Nightowl2

[psycho wench]

okay I've decided to go with the 16/4 rogue/fighter build I've just completed the penisula district with 1 level of fighter and I'm thinking of going for finesse instead of brute strength being human what would be the best combo of weapons for this ?? maybe short sword/dagger apparently the penalty is less with a smaller offhand weapon?

now for the dumb question how do I increase dex when I level up instead of str?

[robertthebard]

Second question first, yes, if your finesse building, dex is the primary attribute, and it will need to be higher than your str. Not really a dumb question either, if you don't know, how else will you learn?
Ideal weapons for finesse are short swords, maces, daggers, kukris, rapiers, kamas, basically any tiny melee weapon. Missile weapons do not count. Note that while rapiers are not tiny weapons, they are finesseable.

[Xiphias]

Originally posted by Legolas: Then there's the 4/16 build which is notable because at that point you get the maximum attack bonus possible, and it equals that of a pure fighter.

Any rogue in a build will give you at least 1 less BAB than a fighter. 4 rogue/16 fighter will give you 19 BAB at lv20, 20 fighter will give you 20.

The penalties are smaller if you've got a weapon classified as small or tiny in the offhand, what's in the main hand doesn't matter. If you felt like it you could have a dagger in the main hand and a short sword in the offhand and get the reduced penalties.

You need the weapon finesse feat before you can use deterity for your attack rolls for tiny and small weapons (and the rapier), you also need higher dexterity than strength. Strength is still used to calculate the extra damage.

To put points into dexterity when you get an extra attribute point just click the arrow next to dexterity rather than the one next to strength.

[Legolas]

You're absolutely right, I stand corrected.