NWN2: Discussion about the ending [MAJOR SPOILERS]

[PurpleXVI]

I could never get the construct, seems I missed the "glowing liquid" component, where the hell were you supposed to get that one, anyway? That part seemed very grafted on with a chainsaw, too, after the Githyanki stronghold there was nothing to suggest your party ever went back and picked up the construct, either, it just re-appeared back at your "hideout." I didn't even realize I could re-assemble it until I talked to Grobnar out of boredom, he never even commented on in in between quests(May have been because I never brought him along except for the Wendersnaven bit, but still.).

Only one romance option per gender was poor, too. I mean, what about an Evil woman, what about say, Bishop for her? Why should useless Casavir be the only choice? And for men? Even worse. Elanee, blech. Just about any of the other women would've been a better choice. Shandra was the only really tolerable female party member, anyway.

I may as well say that after Bishop's betrayal at Crossroad Keep, and after the goddamn game crashing on me AGAIN, I just stopped playing and uninstalled the whole thing. After reading that the ending is THIS crappy, I really don't feel much incentive to ever beat it. Does NWN2 actually have any redeeming features at all?

The character interaction and talking was done better in BG2, for Christ's sake, you had maybe, what, 4 different things to talk about your party members with? Half of them you couldn't talk about the current situation or rest of the party with.

The fighting and enemy AI was terrible. The dungeons were better designed even in Knights of the Old Republic. I've never seen a game with worse party member AI.

I mean, honestly, I'm not demanding my money back, but I'd feel bad if I ever recommended this game to someone.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by Calaethis Dragonsbane: ]...70. I found a bug at the Moonstone Mask where the owner says that you're in good hands with Sand and if you agree, you get +1 influence with Sand. Now, I wanted to see what Sand said about "have you got a problem with Qara" and he would never speak of it in front of her, so I figured that I may as well as try and get Sand's influence reaaaaaaally high to see if he would. Unfortunately, it seems scripted that he won't. Watching Sand and Qara fight is fun. In regards to Memnoch's post, I have very... mixed feelings about the influence system. As per Kotor2 it seems you must suck up and agree with your companions, appeasing them in order to influence them. I don't like that. It's very difficult to get them to see your point of view without flattering them.

LOL That explains it. I was wondering. I was actually hoping that there was a threshold in the game where if influence with both of them is high enough that you get to make a REAL choice, rather than simply being forced to take the higher influence one.

No, I disagree with the sucking up comment. The reality is that you do NOT have to appease anyone if you don't agree with them. That's the PLAYERS choice not a choice forced on you. If you and an NPC are diametrically opposed on an issue, then it becomes a matter of how whether you want to appease them or hold your ground and risk losing them as a companion. You are NOT forced to suck up to them by any means. But you do have to account for the consequences of your actions.

Even though Bishop is actually a pretty good tank, I simply can't abide his viewpoint in the game and the slim influence gain I have with him was more a matter of chance than trying to tweak the system. Like you, I saw Bishop's betrayal coming really early, but I dropped him from my party for good once I got finished with the Let's Rescue Shandra quest. In fact, if it had been up to me I would NEVER have taken him on that quest in first place. lol So it was of no consequence to me whether he stayed with the KoS or not - if he stays he's going down, if he leaves so much the better.

Neeshka is the only character that I actually had to compromise with - at least a little. I let the influence play out with all of the others, but I decided that I liked her enough in game terms that I would bend over backwards to cut her some slack - even if it meant taking the occassional hit to my alignment - as long as the sacrifices could be justified. In my case, I decided to make the stretch.

[ 01-04-2007, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: Micah Foehammer ]

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

Originally posted by PurpleXVI: I could never get the construct, seems I missed the "glowing liquid" component, where the hell were you supposed to get that one, anyway?

The goblin caves with the glowstone - you have to have Grobnar in your group. He says that the liquid reminds him of Construct's runes and he takes some of it.

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: No, I disagree with the sucking up comment. The reality is that you do NOT have to appease anyone if you don't agree with them. That's the PLAYERS choice not a choice forced on you. If you and an NPC are diametrically opposed on an issue, then it becomes a matter of how whether you want to appease them or hold your ground and risk losing them as a companion. You are NOT forced to suck up to them by any means. But you do have to account for the consequences of your actions.

I mean in order to gain influence, you had to suck up to them. If you don't like the choices, that's fine - you don't have to agree, but you won't gain any influence. I think the only one I could be rude to and actually gained influence was Ammon Jerro. He seemed to respect that, almost. Which is weird.

I liked Neeshka - she was cute, and I didn't find the chaotic hits to my alignment that bad, to be honest. Then again, I was playing as Neutral Good, and despite doing chaotic things, I found by about mid-way through act II, I was Lawful Good and I couldn't shift it back.

[PurpleXVI]

Bishop respected some levels of independence and not taking any shit, too. But despite a near-maxed influence, I couldn't get him to stay, is it even possible in any way? Or is it either him or someone else that skips out at that stage of the game? Could be I had someone else too high-influenced to keep him.

Edit: Thank you for the Grobnar hint.

[ 01-04-2007, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: PurpleXVI ]

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

Originally posted by PurpleXVI: Bishop respected some levels of independence and not taking any shit, too. But despite a near-maxed influence, I couldn't get him to stay, is it even possible in any way? Or is it either him or someone else that skips out at that stage of the game? Could be I had someone else too high-influenced to keep him.

No. It's impossible to keep him. More's the pity.

And either Sand or Qara leaves - one of the two. If one stays, the other leaves. There's no way to keep both, just as there's no way to keep Bishop.

Originally posted by PurpleXVI: Edit: Thank you for the Grobnar hint.

Any time.

[PurpleXVI]

Too bad. Favourite Bishop moments?

"Strike up a tune, half-man, before I strike you."

Or the conversation with Shandra about needing blood:

"So we need a pint of blood? Does it have to be mine? Can't we use Bishop's instead? Like, all of it?"

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by Calaethis Dragonsbane: I mean in order to gain influence, you had to suck up to them. If you don't like the choices, that's fine - you don't have to agree, but you won't gain any influence. I think the only one I could be rude to and actually gained influence was Ammon Jerro. He seemed to respect that, almost. Which is weird. I liked Neeshka - she was cute, and I didn't find the chaotic hits to my alignment that bad, to be honest. Then again, I was playing as Neutral Good, and despite doing chaotic things, I found by about mid-way through act II, I was Lawful Good and I couldn't shift it back.

If you don't agree with them at heart and still say that you do, that IS called sucking up and it happens ALL the time in RL. LOL

I hated Ammon Jerro and was as rude to him as I could be. I wanted to antagonize him. Shocked the crap out of me when I checked influence and I had gained a bucket load with him! By the way, most people think that gaining influence with Shandra Jerro is a lost cause but it's not. At some point in your conversation with AJ, you get an influence transfer from SJ to AJ, after a fashion. NOt sure about the details but I think its a 10 point jump for AJ IF your influence with SJ was high.

[ 01-05-2007, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Micah Foehammer ]

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: If you don't agree with them at heart and still say that you do, that IS called sucking up and it happens ALL the time in RL. LOL

That's true. I hadn't really considered that.

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: I hated Ammon Jerro and was as rude to him as I could be. I wanted to antagonize him. Shocked the crap out of me when I checked influence and I had gained a bucket load with him! By the way, most people think that gaining influence with Shandra Jerro is a lost cause but it's not. At some point in your conversation with AJ, you get an influence transfer from SJ to AJ, after a fashion. NOt sure about the details but I think its a 10 point jump for AJ IF your influence with SJ was high.

And yes... its when you have to go and find him because he disappears from Crossroad Keep. That sage guy has something to say, but Ammon is nowhere in sight. Turns out (after you set Bishop loose like the dog he is - set a dog to catch one?) - he's out Shandra's farm. You just keep arguing with him and say "Don't you feel anything" line of questioning; he turns around and says "Did you really know her" - and then if you use the influence check you had with Shandra (succesfully), he admits that you did know her, and then you can get him to feel remorse... and you get that huge influence jump. I thought it was one of the more touching moments in the game.

I hope if there is a sequel, you'll have the chance to ressurect Shandra.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by Calaethis Dragonsbane: quote: Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: If you don't agree with them at heart and still say that you do, that IS called sucking up and it happens ALL the time in RL. LOL

That's true. I hadn't really considered that.

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: I hated Ammon Jerro and was as rude to him as I could be. I wanted to antagonize him. Shocked the crap out of me when I checked influence and I had gained a bucket load with him! By the way, most people think that gaining influence with Shandra Jerro is a lost cause but it's not. At some point in your conversation with AJ, you get an influence transfer from SJ to AJ, after a fashion. NOt sure about the details but I think its a 10 point jump for AJ IF your influence with SJ was high.

And yes... its when you have to go and find him because he disappears from Crossroad Keep. That sage guy has something to say, but Ammon is nowhere in sight. Turns out (after you set Bishop loose like the dog he is - set a dog to catch one?) - he's out Shandra's farm. You just keep arguing with him and say "Don't you feel anything" line of questioning; he turns around and says "Did you really know her" - and then if you use the influence check you had with Shandra (succesfully), he admits that you did know her, and then you can get him to feel remorse... and you get that huge influence jump. I thought it was one of the more touching moments in the game.

I hope if there is a sequel, you'll have the chance to ressurect Shandra. [/QUOTE]I don't usually get too attached to NPC's - god knows I didn't in BG1, BG2 (okay except for Imoen), NWN1/SoU/HotU (again except for Deekin - who I adored). But for some reason in NWN2, I actually found myself with some pretty strong emtion about the NPCs (okay at least strong in terms of this being a game - lol). And they weren't just all oh he sucks, she's a wuss, he's worthless. e.g. Bishop is not a wuss by any means, but I totally despise the man. I can't recall a game that got me that riled up about a character.

in fairness, the gith Zhaejve, is just major league drab. Her dialogue should be used as a cure for insomnia. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz oh sorry ... dozed off there.

As for AJ, do we get a chance to break the portrait we had made of SJ over AJ's head? Or at least make him hang it up in his room so he has to stare at it? forever?