.44 or .50??

[Alexander]

I guess I'll never understand the strange human fascination with instruments of death.

Just my 2 cents, not trying to start an argument here.

[johnny]

Originally posted by MILAMBER: I'm going down to get the DE .50 on my way back from work today @ Turners. Thanks for all the reply's. Most of it just re-affirmed my subconsciously already made decision. I know the rounds cost more, but it's a friggin cannon and therefore worthwhile. I'll tell you guys all about it in 14 days!

don't count on it, they might not let you use the computer in soledad lol

[Neb]

Originally posted by Sir Kenyth: I was an NCO in the military, so I have plenty of weapons experience. You must understand that a gun is a dangerous item and it is perfectly normal to be fearful of them. No one in their right mind would like staring down the wrong end of one and even the right end of one is a nasty place to be if it's pointed at someone. That's life though. Life can be a nasty business in rough times. Some people don't realize just how close any civilized country can be to anarchy. How fast you can go from being a secure citizen to a victem. In my lifetime the USSR went from superpower to anarchy, and I'm still a young man! Countless people are killed and maimed every day by all forms of the cruel human animal. Even here in the US! It all seems so far away and unlikely in our current secure lifestyle. For many people every day it's the harshest of realities! One thing is common of all the cruel human animals in this world though. They all prefer their victems unarmed and defenseless. This is the same from the lowliest mugger to the largest oppressive government regime. What makes the US different I ask? One difference is that our forefathers saw the disarming of the populus as the disempowerment of the people! They saw it as a doorway to the exact same thing they had run away from to begin with! We're too civilized you say? It can't happen to us? Why not? Take away our foundations and give it a couple hundred years or so. Things may go a direction you never expected! I see firearm ownership like voting. It's a responsibility that EVERYONE who's a law abiding citizen should take advantage of. Make informed decisions when it comes to giving away your rights people! They may seem trivial now, but your children or grandchilderen may have a hell of a harder time getting them back once they're gone and they need them! Hey! How'd I get up on this soapbox?

Ah, well, let me present you with a few questions. Have you ever considered that when it's easier for YOU to buy a weapon, it's also easier for the people that you want to defend yourself against to buy a weapon? Oh and in a LOT of countries where it is FAR less easy to acquire a gun the murder rate is quite a bit lower. You really don't need an actual gun to defend yourself, just a fake, point it at whatever idiots are threatening you and they'll quite probably run. And if they don't, if they decide to attack you, you'd be screwed even if you had a real gun, because they'll probably be more than you. And they've bought their guns just as easily as you bought yours.

Let me add another point, if someone breaks into your house and you pull a gun and shoot at them. Won't that make them more likely to shoot back than if you didn't bother them? Material things are only worth so much, if someone broke into my house while I was home I'd hide somewhere and let them take what they wanted. Material things can be replaced, you can't replace yourself if some burglar fights back and puts a bullet through your skull or knife through your chest to save himself from being shot by you.

[Epona]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: Here In England, where firearm laws are as tight as tight can be, I cannot even keep a gun in my own home (Not that I could afford a gun, yet anyway). At the firing range where Shooting takes place, the .22 & .303 (all bolt action naturally) rifles are all kept in an very large & heavy safe when they are not being used, same for the ammunition, and no one can have more than 12 rounds on them at a time. I’m not entirely clear on all the laws, but it’s pretty much impossible to own any Magazine pistol & most repeating weapons as well and all guns are very tightly controlled and regulated. As a result firearms deaths in England are very low indeed, nearly all of them from criminals or suicide. Guns do make murder more likely and easier, but as a hobby when controlled like this they are perfectly harmless. However it always annoys me though, because as long as I live in Britain I can never own that FN MAG 58 I've always wanted

You're right about the laws here Dramnek - very tight. I've never even shot a gun - although I'd love to give it a go, I was always a good shot with the air-rifle I had as a kid lol - although for some reason me doing target practise in the back garden always used to freak out my neighbours [img]tongue.gif[/img] - I actually used to use the thing mostly to scare cats out of the garden (and no, I never shot one, but a carefully aimed pellet on the metal fencepost 2" below said cat's ass convinced it to stop crapping in the flowerbeds lol)

Interesting about the gun-laws though - because OK it's difficult to get a gun, but plenty of the drug-gangs round here find it easy enough - so the people most likely to go shoot someone still have easy access.

In fact my district hospital (in Hackney) treats more gunshot wounds a year than get seen in the most violent area of Soweto. So there you go.

[ 04-27-2002, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Epona ]

[*\Conan/*]

Originally posted by Neb: You really don't need an actual gun to defend yourself, just a fake, point it at whatever idiots are threatening you and they'll quite probably run. And if they don't, if they decide to attack you, you'd be screwed even if you had a real gun, because they'll probably be more than you. And they've bought their guns just as easily as you bought yours.

Neb, not a good idea...people have tried that and have ended up dead for it. If you pull a gun on someone it better be real and you had better know how to use it.
450 or so people die in one year just in the DC. from gunshot wounds. The latest thing the scumbags are doing now is breaking into peoples houses while they are still home. Yes, while they are home! They will shoot you for the jacket off your back...and for nothing but a 20$ bill.
This is a generation of live for the minute punks, preying on anyone, anywhere and not caring about the concequences. If you lived in a violent place you may understand a little better. I think homeland security is a good idea as long as it doesn't get carried away. The sad part about it is that say someone does break into your home and you have set snares to entangle him, he gets diabled on your property, your in for a law suit. Kinda set up to punish you. So I say dont let them walk out alive to do it again. That sounds cold but its the truth. These people are desperate and have no problems capping you in the process. The penaltys have no impact on in their thought process and they do not value life what-so-ever. Its like a family reunion when they get arrested so they just keep going. Sometimes posing as utility workers, policemen or cable workers.

Our veiws on this may be different and I understand what your saying. But I for one will at least be prepared to counter somehow. If it comes to taking someone down with me then so be it sadly enough.

[ 04-27-2002, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: *\Conan/* ]

[Epona]

Originally posted by *\Conan/*: Neb, not a good idea...people have tried that and have ended up dead for it. If you pull a gun on someone it better be real and you had better know how to use it. 450 or so people die in one year just in the DC. from gunshot wounds. The latest thing the scumbags are doing now is breaking into peoples houses while they are still home. Yes, while they are home! They will shoot you for the jacket off your back...and for nothing but a 20$ bill. This is a generation of live for the minute punks, preying on anyone, anywhere and not caring about the concequences. If you lived in a violent place you may understand a little better. I think homeland security is a good idea as long as it doesn't get carried away. The sad part about it is that say someone does break into your home and you have set snares to entangle him, he gets diabled on your property, your in for a law suit. Kinda set up to punish you. So I say dont let them walk out alive to do it again. That sounds cold but its the truth. These people are desperate and have no problems capping you in the process. The penaltys have no impact on in their thought process and they do not value life what-so-ever. Its like a family reunion when they get arrested so they just keep going. Sometimes posing as utility workers, policemen or cable workers. Our veiws on this may be different and I understand what your saying. But I for one will at least be prepared to counter somehow. If it comes to taking someone down with me then so be it sadly enough.

Very true Scott - dumb idea to pretend you've got a gun, quick way to end up dead. In fact here in the UK it's not just the danger from criminals if you do that - the police will shoot you if they *think* you have a gun so no replicas, or you'll end up dead. There was a recent case of a local man who was shot and killed because the police thought the piece of wood he was carrying home for his DIY project was a gun. I certainly wouldn't point anything at anyone just in case.

You don't need a gun to injure or kill someone and there are a lot of psychos about - my ex-lodger was stabbed on the doorstep for £5 - fortunately he put his arm out and they missed any major blood vessels, but it required several stitches. Another guy I know from my hometown (a quiet rural backwater) was stabbed in the stomach and nearly died - attacked as he was leaving the pub (and it wrecked his life, he was a professional football (soccer) player and the damage meant he couldn't play any more and he's now slowly drinking himself to death). It's not really about what weapons you have access to IMO.

[ 04-27-2002, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Epona ]

[Lord of Alcohol]

I was going to mention the fake gun strategy would get you killed, but couldnt think of a tactful way to put it. Well said Scott

[Sir Taliesin]

Milamber, check out www.cheaperthandirt.com. They have .50cal ammo for $15.95 a box (20 rounds). There are other places on the web you also might check for a better price. If it gets to expensive to shoot, you might try your hand at reloading. It's a cheap way to go after the initail investment. Look at www.dillonprecision.com. They have one of the sweetest deals going!

[quote]Originally posted by Sir Kenyth:

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: Hey! How'd I get up on this soapbox?

I don't know [img]smile.gif[/img] But I like what you said, it is so very true.
Altho I still think it is silly to say guns are frightening.
I mean really, if you are afraid of inanimate objects, I think you
may need to seek some help. Now if there is an animate person brandishing said object..thats a whole different story.

Originally posted by MILAMBER: I'm going down to get the DE .50 on my way back from work today @ Turners. Thanks for all the reply's. Most of it just re-affirmed my subconsciously already made decision. I know the rounds cost more, but it's a friggin cannon and therefore worthwhile. I'll tell you guys all about it in 14 days!

I saw that the ban on .50 cal weapons was vetoe'd so you still have the option. Im really amazed you can still buy the DE in CA, when you can't have an olympic competitor in the state because she needs a specific kind of .22 cal pistol and that pistol qualifies as an "Assault Weapon" sheesh Id like to see an assault group all armed with .22's