On Nazism - Page 3

Diogenes Of Pumpkintown · 10-08-2001, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liliara:

Hmmm.... thought I remembred a post where you said you were a professor.

Nope.

Yorick · 10-08-2001, 04:24 AM

My country right or wrong.
My wife for better or worse.

Sounds similar to me Dio.

Liliara, good to see you too.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Yorick · 10-08-2001, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
No different whatsoever than the flag waving patriotic emotion in America today.

Thoughts, comments, flames?

It is this I took issue with.

BYW. You asked for thoughts comments and flames Dio...

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Nachtrafe · 10-08-2001, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Liliara:

Out of curiosity, where are you a professor, anyway? (Not an issue of putting anyone down, just want to know where not to send my kids. If you don't know the diference between patriotism, and what Hitler insighted his nation to, I really don't want my children (when I have them) exposed to a school who would hire you.)

Again, this is NOT a flame (although Dio welcomed flames in his post) I am really SERIOUS!!!

Hey Lil...just avoid sending them to any college then. Unless you have personally screened a majority of the courses. Unfortunately, most institutes of higher learning in the US have been so infested(and yes, I do mean INFESTED) by those that think they are the intellectual 'elite'(most of whom seem to be holdover hippies) that they dont even bother with trying to give an 'education' anymore. And public schools are worse!! For the sake of your yet to be born kids...Send them to a private school!

/***********************************************
Yorick!

Awesome post!

Lifetime...Awesome post! *All* of the paragraphs of it.,

And Dio! Shame on you. This whole 'Thread' is nothing more than a massive flamebait. Comparing contemporary Americans to Nazi's is designed to do nothing more than incite those same Americans to anger. I, and others, expect much better from you than petty incitement.

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"In Memorium of those who are gone, and all those that bought our freedom with their hearts blood!"

"May the Colors of Liberty never run"

WOLFGIR · 10-08-2001, 04:53 AM

Well concerning the similarities with Germany during ww2 and before and US today.. I think that we can see some similarities, which you can see in ALOT of democracies around the world. Media coverage and media putting the message to people.

Though Nazi germany had had a more severe time after the great war and lay in a deep depression. Nazist came with promises, and kept most of them. Lifted Germany up to a big and strong nation. There the possible connection stops.

Germanny was lead by a maniac that swore in the people to him, and bound by honor the army followed his commands. They put their anger towars one part, it is so much easier to blame a third part.

From that Nazism freefalled into the typical fascist propaganda.

USA today have a goal and a goal which is to stop terrorism. They cooperate with NATO countries and tries to get a global rejection of terrorism.

That US today is filled with Patritism, can you blame them? Is it wrong for a nation to join up against opression??

Well, depends on how things turn around. But I wouldn´t say that it is close to Nazism..

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Howling to the moon, cause this world seems so far away..
Wolfgirs lair
once-upon-a-paper

Liliara · 10-08-2001, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
Nope.

Totally my bad then. I apologize for my post.

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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

Yorick · 10-08-2001, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
The analogy is not accurate, Yorick. Politics is a very different world, very far removed from the emotion of Love.

We are not talking love other other human beings here, or love of any living being, but rather a sense of blind loyalty, a willingness to fight for the "spouse" whether they are in the right or not, and that is NOT a morally good thing.

[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 10-08-2001).]

Dio, politics has nothing to do with patriotism. Politics is the consequence of two or more humans together, working to ensure their individual agenda is met. Patriotism is love. Love for ones country. The willingness to die for ones country involves a form of patriotism, but is not limited to that.
America is a very openly patriotic nation. Australia by contrast is almost the antithesis of this - unless the Australian is outside their country, or living during an Olympic games in their country. That is when an Australian is patriotic.

------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Kaz · 10-08-2001, 05:34 AM

I think one must differentiate between two forms of patriotism: 1) when one loves ones country, but still sees that it can make mistakes, and will fight for it to better itself, but above all KNOWS THAT IT IS NOT INFALLIBLE. I have nothing against this sort of patriotism. 2) when one is blinded by love of ones country, that one will do anything for it REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS GOOD OR BAD. I don't think I need to explain why this is a bad thing. Love your country, all right (just not in Germany), but remember that nothing is perfect, that your government CAN and WILL make mistakes. If you have forgotten that, it is BAD. The German people's patriotism was always very strong (the Kaiserreich - whatsit called in English - did very much propaganda, etc.) It was further strengthened by the Great Depression, which was awful for the whole country (we're currently doing it in History. I am GLAD I did not live in that time - money was basically worthless. My great-grandmother's family was quite rich before that time, afterwards they were one of the poorest). Also the Versailles Treaty, which imposed harsh measures on Germany, demands that it could not, in its current condition, comply with. So the Germans were very very poor, yet loved their country. Hitler twisted their patriotism into patriotism no. 2), which under the circumstances was not that hard. After what happened, the Germans frown on any kind of patriotism at all, which may explain my reserved attitude towards many of the things said on this board, or indeed, in general the reserved attitude of Germans toward American patriotism.
Whoa, am I the only German to have replied to this post?

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Sapphire Dragoness of ALSB
Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe
Guardian of the Temple of Aerie (specialized in GenCon and BG)
Magess of Lady Lioness' Court
Historian of IW
Most Illustrious Arch-Magess of the Illuminati
Lux omnis est

Cloudbringer · 10-08-2001, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nachtrafe:
Hey Lil...just avoid sending them to any college then. Unless you have personally screened a majority of the courses. Unfortunately, most institutes of higher learning in the US have been so infested(and yes, I do mean INFESTED) by those that think they are the intellectual 'elite'(most of whom seem to be holdover hippies) that they dont even bother with trying to give an 'education' anymore. And public schools are worse!! For the sake of your yet to be born kids...Send them to a private school!

GRRRRRRRRR! Ok, I take umbrage at this one! That's a gross generalization, which I can personally debunk as I've attended 2 colleges, work in one, communicate with other schools and talk to our grads who've attended other universities for undergrad work. I have some idea what universities are like.

I got an incredibly good undergraduate education and I'd say the vast majority of the faculty at the STATE university I attended were qualified, conscientious and imparted their information in a way that made me want to learn! And one or two 'hippies' in the mix were an education all on their own. Learning can encompass many things, what you like and don't like for classes or instruction methods can be useful too! And one can often choose classes/ instructors with input from other students so as to avoid teaching styles you dislike or get the ones you prefer.

Quote:

And Dio! Shame on you. This whole 'Thread' is nothing more than a massive flamebait. Comparing contemporary Americans to Nazi's is designed to do nothing more than incite those same Americans to anger. I, and others, expect much better from you than petty incitement.

Gotta say, Dio, I think he's got a point. I saw this as a bit of a stirring the bees nest, myself!

Cloudy
Angeleyes

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

[This message has been edited by Cloudbringer (edited 10-08-2001).]

Cloudbringer · 10-08-2001, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Yorick:

Dio, politics has nothing to do with patriotism. Politics is the consequence of two or more humans together, working to ensure their individual agenda is met. Patriotism is love. Love for ones country. The willingness to die for ones country involves a form of patriotism, but is not limited to that.
America is a very openly patriotic nation. Australia by contrast is almost the antithesis of this - unless the Australian is outside their country, or living during an Olympic games in their country. That is when an Australian is patriotic.

Now that's a nice differentiation!

Cloudy

------------------

Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
CloudDragon of the OHF
Storm-Queen
Raven's Cloud
StormCloud of the Black Knight: Heart Mind Soul Forever
"To sleep, perchance to dream..."

10-08-2001, 04:24 AM	#22
Yorick Very Mad Bird Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam) Age: 52 Posts: 9,246	My country right or wrong. My wife for better or worse. Sounds similar to me Dio. Liliara, good to see you too. ------------------ I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on.... A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

10-08-2001, 04:53 AM	#25
WOLFGIR Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Sweden Age: 50 Posts: 3,450	Well concerning the similarities with Germany during ww2 and before and US today.. I think that we can see some similarities, which you can see in ALOT of democracies around the world. Media coverage and media putting the message to people. Though Nazi germany had had a more severe time after the great war and lay in a deep depression. Nazist came with promises, and kept most of them. Lifted Germany up to a big and strong nation. There the possible connection stops. Germanny was lead by a maniac that swore in the people to him, and bound by honor the army followed his commands. They put their anger towars one part, it is so much easier to blame a third part. From that Nazism freefalled into the typical fascist propaganda. USA today have a goal and a goal which is to stop terrorism. They cooperate with NATO countries and tries to get a global rejection of terrorism. That US today is filled with Patritism, can you blame them? Is it wrong for a nation to join up against opression?? Well, depends on how things turn around. But I wouldn´t say that it is close to Nazism.. ------------------ Howling to the moon, cause this world seems so far away.. Wolfgirs lair once-upon-a-paper

10-08-2001, 05:34 AM	#28
Kaz Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom Join Date: August 16, 2001 Location: UK Posts: 2,891	I think one must differentiate between two forms of patriotism: 1) when one loves ones country, but still sees that it can make mistakes, and will fight for it to better itself, but above all KNOWS THAT IT IS NOT INFALLIBLE. I have nothing against this sort of patriotism. 2) when one is blinded by love of ones country, that one will do anything for it REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT IS GOOD OR BAD. I don't think I need to explain why this is a bad thing. Love your country, all right (just not in Germany), but remember that nothing is perfect, that your government CAN and WILL make mistakes. If you have forgotten that, it is BAD. The German people's patriotism was always very strong (the Kaiserreich - whatsit called in English - did very much propaganda, etc.) It was further strengthened by the Great Depression, which was awful for the whole country (we're currently doing it in History. I am GLAD I did not live in that time - money was basically worthless. My great-grandmother's family was quite rich before that time, afterwards they were one of the poorest). Also the Versailles Treaty, which imposed harsh measures on Germany, demands that it could not, in its current condition, comply with. So the Germans were very very poor, yet loved their country. Hitler twisted their patriotism into patriotism no. 2), which under the circumstances was not that hard. After what happened, the Germans frown on any kind of patriotism at all, which may explain my reserved attitude towards many of the things said on this board, or indeed, in general the reserved attitude of Germans toward American patriotism. Whoa, am I the only German to have replied to this post? ------------------ Sapphire Dragoness of ALSB Waitress at Cloudy's Cafe Guardian of the Temple of Aerie (specialized in GenCon and BG) Magess of Lady Lioness' Court Historian of IW Most Illustrious Arch-Magess of the Illuminati Lux omnis est

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