Israel? Are we looking at peace?

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Mr. Arafat is very popular with his own people and if I remember correctly is a democraticly elected leader, or at least was. To speak of "Disappearing" popular elected leaders is as far from democracy as we can go I think. I smell a very big culture gap here in the west and a lack of understanding of what is really going on in the streets of Isreal, Gaza, and the West Bank. I admit I dont understand it all, at all and won't pretend too either.

Well it is very hard to lose an election when you are the only participant. AFAIK no democraticly elected leader has the power to cancel an election when it is obvious you might lose. 1970, or thereabout can't remember, Arafat was chosen as the PLO chairman. 26 years later the first Palestinian election took place. Very democratic. No the current Palestinian Prime Minister Mr. Abbas is more or less a democraticly elected leader. [img]smile.gif[/img] Perhaps the first. I think there are several members with additional or correct, if it turns out I at error here, information.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by WillowIX: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: Mr. Arafat is very popular with his own people and if I remember correctly is a democraticly elected leader, or at least was. To speak of "Disappearing" popular elected leaders is as far from democracy as we can go I think. I smell a very big culture gap here in the west and a lack of understanding of what is really going on in the streets of Isreal, Gaza, and the West Bank. I admit I dont understand it all, at all and won't pretend too either.

Well it is very hard to lose an election when you are the only participant. AFAIK no democraticly elected leader has the power to cancel an election when it is obvious you might lose. 1970, or thereabout can't remember, Arafat was chosen as the PLO chairman. 26 years later the first Palestinian election took place. Very democratic. No the current Palestinian Prime Minister Mr. Abbas is more or less a democraticly elected leader. [img]smile.gif[/img] Perhaps the first. I think there are several members with additional or correct, if it turns out I at error here, information. [/QUOTE]Well it is difficult to have elections if you dont have a state, and I beleive Arafat is open to democratic elections. I thought Mr. Abbas was select with Arafats approval but I'm an outsider looking in with regards to this whole issue so I could be wrong. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: The documentry film call "Persona Non Grata" is being playyed on the HBO channels. It is Oliver Stone's personal journey thorugh Isreal and the West Bank in the spring of 2002. He interviews all sorts of Isreali leaders, Hamas, The martyrs brigade and many people on the street on both sides. An excellent look into the hearts and minds over there.

Ya know Mr. Stone makes wonderful movies that gross lots of money. But a great many people have evidence that he plays pretty loosely with the truth and fact to make his story more interesting.

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: The documentry film call "Persona Non Grata" is being playyed on the HBO channels. It is Oliver Stone's personal journey thorugh Isreal and the West Bank in the spring of 2002. He interviews all sorts of Isreali leaders, Hamas, The martyrs brigade and many people on the street on both sides. An excellent look into the hearts and minds over there.

Ya know Mr. Stone makes wonderful movies that gross lots of money. But a great many people have evidence that he plays pretty loosely with the truth and fact to make his story more interesting. [/QUOTE]Have you seen this movie? If not I would at least see it before making judgments about it.

He asks excellent questions and gets some very thoughtful answers. He lets his subjects speak at lenth their feelings and insights to the problems over there and at no point in the movie does he even offer an opinion on the situation.


Edit: It is a documentry, not a re-write of history or a motion picture. a documentry.

[ 07-03-2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Timber Loftis]

Hey, Willow, I note you haven't updated your sig in some time. Let's just cancel the date, shall we??

Chewie, I wasn't making a comment about any particular work by Mr. Stone. Just a voicing the general concensus in DISA and NSA of his past works.

[Ryanamur]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: To speak of "Disappearing" popular elected leaders is as far from democracy as we can go I think.

Saddam was elected [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, I really doubt that the peace will last. There are too many radicals on both camps to really give it a working chance. I won't say that we'll see an attack within the first 48hrs; but I'm really doubtful it will last more than 2 weeks.

As long as Israel exists, there will be no peace.

NOTE: I could say "Palestine" instead of "Israel", but given that Israel is surrounded by Arab countries, peace has a better chance if it's Israel that disapears.

[Chewbacca]

Seeing as how it seems Arafat wasn't elected in the fair sense (ie. like Saddam, being the only one on the ballot), I can only retract my statements about him being democraticly elected.

He is popular with the people as far as I know, this makes his "disappearing" a very risky proposal on the road to peace.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: Seeing as how it seems Arafat wasn't elected in the fair sense (ie. like Saddam, being the only one on the ballot), I can only retract my statements about him being democraticly elected. He is popular with the people as far as I know, this makes his "disappearing" a very risky proposal on the road to peace.

I'm not sure about Arafat's elections. [img]smile.gif[/img] But I do know that Abbas was elected according to "our" rules. Of course I don't think he is very popular in certain camps at the moment.

But had Arafat disappeared, as in retired, a few years back along with the Israeli elite perhaps we wouldn't have the situation we now have (had? [img]smile.gif[/img] ). It all went down hill again with the murder of Rabin. There were some prospects of peace at that time. Even formal talks with the Arab nations.

[Chewbacca]

So far so good it seems... on the current road to peace...Knock on wood! [img]smile.gif[/img]