Thoughts of a contemporary Athiest...

[Oblivion437]

Thank you for the welcome...
I know religion, when taught correctly, is the best thing for some. In fact, religion is what kept a tribe of natives in South America out of slavery, as they were protected by the missions... Now, you can't argue that religion is obsolete, that is incorrect. People sometimes need it, it's critical for them to be able to function as a human to have something to hope for. Me? I live as I always have, taking it in one day at a time, adjusting my beliefs to new observations, and facts and such. (BTW, The Gewehr 36 is Not the Gewehr three-six((Not a scale down of the G3)), it's the gewehr thirty-six, for those who didn't know, and a rush project after the bail of the G11) Don't know why I inserted gun talk, but I'm sure someone will learn something from it...

[john]

As the old profit BST (Blood Sweat and Tears ) once said "I swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell" I too was born and raised Catholic.After high school I seemed to forget about going to church.I really don't feel very "religious" but do try to act and treat others in a "Christian" way.As far as is there a God I guess no one will know till they die.I feel if there is a God maybe he's busy in another galaxy and let us slip into the hell that seems to be overtaking the world today...Especially in the "holy Land"!!!. ..John

[AliCat]

Slight off-topic comment:
Thief-prowess,
I believe you are a bit confused as to what atheists and agnostics are. Per the dictionary, an atheist believes that there is no god ("a" meaning anti or none, and "the-" I believe means "god"). An agnostic is "one who hlds that ultimate causes (as God) are unknowable" (and to parse this one out, the "a" prefix again implies "no" and "gnostic" means "one who has mystical knowledge"). You appear to be an atheist, not an agnostic. Oh, and by definition, neither believes that "you are your own higher power". That belief has another name.

Does that help?

AliCat

[theifprowess]

ailcat:
sorry got the two mixed up ion a sense.

agnos´tisizem) , form of skepticism that holds that the existence of God cannot be logically proved or disproved. Among prominent agnostics have been Auguste Comte, Herbert Spencer, and T. H. Huxley (who coined the word agnostic in 1869). Immanuel Kant was an agnostic who argued that belief in DIVINITY CAN ONLY REST IN FAITH. Agnosticism is not to be confused with atheism , which asserts that there is no God.

but if you have complete faith in yourself you are in your own sense your own god.

and agnosticism is derived from athieism.

the 4 types of athieism is as follows:
1.true disbelief in god or supreme being.
2.arguement that there is no proof of god (agnostic)
3.claim paradoxically that to be a philosophical skeptic or athiest is the best preperation for embracing the revealed truths of christianity.
4.react against religious authritarianism, with its emphasis on revelation. also known as rationalists

Isn't it nice that religion in any form is a personal choice and not something we are made to conform to as others see it?

Such is the law of free will. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[John D Harris]

Just a couple of questions for the Athiests, in the spirit of making one think about their beliefs as stated earlier by someone.
If there is no God and we are not created by Him what worth are we as individuals? I mean this body we inhabit is just a pile of chemicals with bioelectric impulses running through it right? Only worth about $1.00 US on the open market, so what is wrong with stopping the bioelectrical impulses of any pile of chemicals? Is it because the contribution that a perticual pile of chemicals would make to the whole of the chem. pile society? Why would any of us chem. piles aspire to think (bioelectric action) that any chem pile was unique?

Is it because it might violate a chem. pile's bioelectric impluses? So what? a Chem. pile is a Chem. pile and bioelectric impulses are bioelectric impulses! Or perhaps because it might violate a group, society, of chem. pile's bioelectrical impulses? Again so what! Why would it matter if a group of chem. piles bioelectrical impulses lead them to believe one way or another? Civilazation is just a concept, a thought, a bioelectrical impulse. Could it be because it might violate the order of the universe? What order? The universe is random right? After all we are just chemicals that by chance happened to be mixed into the same pool of sludge.

If we are just Chem. piles what is wrong with the bigger stronger Chem. piles (males) just taking any of the smaller Chem. piles (females) we want and knock'n them down and having our way with them?
Or taking anything our bioelectrical impulses desire? Why would it matter if something belonged to another Chem. pile? What would it matter if one Chem. pile uses the bioelectrical impulse of lying to another Chem. pile? Because those actions would violate the society of another Chem. piles? WHO Cares? They are just other Chem. piles!Why would any Chem. pile care? After all there is nothing when our bioelectrical impulses end, but rotting flesh.

If we are just chem. piles what is wrong with us stripping this rock, our bioelectrical impluses call earth, of every resourse we can get our grubby chem. pile fingers on? Because it might cause hardship on other chem. piles? Who cares a Chem. pile is a Chem. pile! Because it might cause hardship on us? So, what we are on our way to traveling in space. And in this random universe we had better evolve into lean-mean Chem. pile snuffing machines because we don't know what is out there. Come on the retaining of the bioelectrical impulses of emotions are holding our chem. pile spieces back from the place it could be in this random universe! In fact aren't you dooming all the Chem. piles that you have or are going to pass your genetic chemicals to to certain destruction?

John,

I cannot help but respond to your post. I'm not 100% sure whether you are being serious, or whether you are just raising another discussion point, but I've heard similar arguments before.

I'm also not really sure what type of person you are, so I'm not going to make any direct attacks at your personality. But are you suggesting that, if you did not believe in a God, that you would rape, steal, and generally plunder all that came before you? I am not a christian, but I still strongly believe that these things are wrong. If God is the only thing stopping you from doing them, then perhaps you belong in prison.

I believe that life has no set purpose. We each form our own purposes as we continue through life. I need no God to feel worthwhile. It seems to me that some people crave a purpose desperately, and so they cling to religion to make their life have meaning.

We live....we die. What we do in between is what really matters.

Avi.

[norompanlasolas]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Just a couple of questions for the Athiests, in the spirit of making one think about their beliefs as stated earlier by someone. If there is no God and we are not created by Him what worth are we as individuals? I mean this body we inhabit is just a pile of chemicals with bioelectric impulses running through it right? Only worth about $1.00 US on the open market, so what is wrong with stopping the bioelectrical impulses of any pile of chemicals? Is it because the contribution that a perticual pile of chemicals would make to the whole of the chem. pile society? Why would any of us chem. piles aspire to think (bioelectric action) that any chem pile was unique? Is it because it might violate a chem. pile's bioelectric impluses? So what? a Chem. pile is a Chem. pile and bioelectric impulses are bioelectric impulses! Or perhaps because it might violate a group, society, of chem. pile's bioelectrical impulses? Again so what! Why would it matter if a group of chem. piles bioelectrical impulses lead them to believe one way or another? Civilazation is just a concept, a thought, a bioelectrical impulse. Could it be because it might violate the order of the universe? What order? The universe is random right? After all we are just chemicals that by chance happened to be mixed into the same pool of sludge. If we are just Chem. piles what is wrong with the bigger stronger Chem. piles (males) just taking any of the smaller Chem. piles (females) we want and knock'n them down and having our way with them? Or taking anything our bioelectrical impulses desire? Why would it matter if something belonged to another Chem. pile? What would it matter if one Chem. pile uses the bioelectrical impulse of lying to another Chem. pile? Because those actions would violate the society of another Chem. piles? WHO Cares? They are just other Chem. piles!Why would any Chem. pile care? After all there is nothing when our bioelectrical impulses end, but rotting flesh. If we are just chem. piles what is wrong with us stripping this rock, our bioelectrical impluses call earth, of every resourse we can get our grubby chem. pile fingers on? Because it might cause hardship on other chem. piles? Who cares a Chem. pile is a Chem. pile! Because it might cause hardship on us? So, what we are on our way to traveling in space. And in this random universe we had better evolve into lean-mean Chem. pile snuffing machines because we don't know what is out there. Come on the retaining of the bioelectrical impulses of emotions are holding our chem. pile spieces back from the place it could be in this random universe! In fact aren't you dooming all the Chem. piles that you have or are going to pass your genetic chemicals to to certain destruction?

there is something called morals or ethics (im not sure of the proper word in english) that has anything to do with religion.

[skywalker]

I agree! I live a mostly moral life, not because of any religious belief, but because I feel better being that way.

I contemplate the issues of why we are on this earth and I have no problem with living our lives until death. That's it!

The reward for living a good, happy life is having lived a good, happy life. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Mark

[Oblivion437]

If you fail to see that you exist to your own purposes, and therefore cannot give rise to meaning of existence without the aid of a diety, you are truly weak-minded, and certainly afraid of the unknown. Don't take this as an attack on your intelligence, a lot of intelligent people are weak-minded, they just turn to religion, as life is a little too unpredictable for them. Like I said, some people need this thing to cling to, and I say better religion, which has an acceptable moral code, than say, governments, which violate their own codes when they wish, but force their people to obey those same codes (another discussion, which I'll gladly start up if anyone is interested in that as well).
EDIT: Skywalker, you make more sense than all the philosophers combined.

[ 06-21-2002, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: Oblivion437 ]