A comment about the complaints

[Grungi]

i complained only about the single player story as its lacking in many areas especially in its linear approach, the game itself, the engine and esp the editor are superb, but take pity on the thousands of people buying the game who do NOT want to use creators but just want to play, NWN was sold and advertised as a singleplayer/multiplayer rpg experience so should provide it well, with the increasingly competitive market and even games like baldurs gate still proving old rpg games can be superbly crafted its disappointing to see a lowered single player experience, remember not everyone is switched on, not everyeone buys a game to go on the net download mods or make their own, and they are in the majority the people who dont do that, so the game should be targeted to them if oyu want profit, least NWN is more targeted to a community of gamers who really want to do something and create more, i got two distinct views on this

1) im incredibly lazy at times and i want to kick back & relax without downloading a single patch, mod or anythign else and just play the game i bought

2) im very creative and i love creating plots, characters and levels so the level editor is superb.

option 1 accounts for the majority of people buying this game (obviously on this forum the majority are option 2)

anyhows homer thats the reason i complained, only about the single player experience, dont get me wrong and think im not creative and just am panning a game without exploring its full merits, i have explored them and i like em, just not that darned linear piece of rectal spetum of a main plot [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Morgan_Corbesant]

i disagree about the "perfect" game, for i have found it and have been playing it for four months now (hence my lacking of posts as of late). the game is called..............EVERQUEST!!! man that game rocks.

[the new JR Jansen]

Originally posted by Grungi: i complained only about the single player story as its lacking in many areas especially in its linear approach, the game itself, the engine and esp the editor are superb, but take pity on the thousands of people buying the game who do NOT want to use creators but just want to play, NWN was sold and advertised as a singleplayer/multiplayer rpg experience so should provide it well, with the increasingly competitive market and even games like baldurs gate still proving old rpg games can be superbly crafted its disappointing to see a lowered single player experience, remember not everyone is switched on, not everyeone buys a game to go on the net download mods or make their own, and they are in the majority the people who dont do that, so the game should be targeted to them if oyu want profit, least NWN is more targeted to a community of gamers who really want to do something and create more, i got two distinct views on this 1) im incredibly lazy at times and i want to kick back & relax without downloading a single patch, mod or anythign else and just play the game i bought 2) im very creative and i love creating plots, characters and levels so the level editor is superb. option 1 accounts for the majority of people buying this game (obviously on this forum the majority are option 2) anyhows homer thats the reason i complained, only about the single player experience, dont get me wrong and think im not creative and just am panning a game without exploring its full merits, i have explored them and i like em, just not that darned linear piece of rectal spetum of a main plot [img]tongue.gif[/img]

A-bloody-men.
As an example i like to point out Arcanum. It's not the best game in the world but it had many of the same features as NWN when it came out. They had an editor so you could build your own gaming world and campaigns and they had a single player game for those who wanted to play only single player. Arcanum's single player game was, imo, much better then that of NWN. So Combining both can be done, only NWN did do a poor job of it.

[Chocolate Man]

Look, I know that some people don't like the NWN story, but WHY do they have to blame it on the fact that, in their opinion, "it's to linear". My question is, how would you make it NOT linear? Even the games that the "it's to linear" people are pointing to as not being linear, BGI for example, have very linear storylines. I mean, BGI had many areas that did not have to do with the main plot, but that does not affect the linearity of that main plot. In EVERY BGI game I ever played, you had to do the same things, such as kill Mulahey in the Nashkell mines, get framed for murder in Candlekeep, Expose Sarevok during his coronation ceremony etc. etc. All of this was perfectly linear. It is very hard, if not impossible to do it any other way. Now, if what you actually want is more sidequests, then you might have had a point except for the fact that you can create/download thousands of those. Finally, if you bought the game for the single player experience and are unhappy with it, join the club and just be glad that you CAN easily mod the game and change what you don't like rather than having to completly write off the $40-$50 you spent on the game.

[slicer15]

I am a type of person who simply CANNOT make their own mod. I can't create a seperate story myself. I'm no good at it, and believe me, I've tried. I wish that NWN did focus more on the single player, but I have ben playing it again very recently, and I'm starting to get hooked again. As for the linear part, I have to agree with chocolate man. I mean look at BG2 - I love that game, but you still 'have' to do a lot of things. In NWN, however, it is VERY linear. Stuff to do with the storyline HAS to be that way, but in NWN, you even have to do the districts in a certain order every time. That's what got boring after a while.
Otherwise, it is a brilliant game, and I love the engine, the way the armour shines, blades gleam, and your character is so detailed.

[homer]

To Grungi specifically: I did not mean to imply that any individual is not as creative as the next. I apologize for any offense. As I said before I was merely offering an alternative to just never playing it again.

It is still my opinion that the single player game is as good as BG, BGII, IWD, and IWDII. Just like these games there is a main quest and some side quests. I truly do not see why these single player games are generally thought of as better.

P.S. I do not believe that you have to do the districts in any specific order. It may be a little easier to do them a particular way, however it is not necessary.

[Grungi]

bg1 i consider non-linear, the plot is linear, doh plots are always linear thats the point about em, you can only split them so many ways, no by linear i mean in nwn every area you go in has to be visited, very few areas you dont need to go into, in bg1 you have about 30 areas that are not plot related at all, you have quests like durlags that are hugely involved and NOTHING to do with sarevok in anyway, its a very nonlinear game, NWN just doesnt have that, i felt like i was being pushed in the same direction with everywhere i went.

slicer - you dont have to do districts in certain order, just means some are tougher if you come in at a level different to the one they expected, i did them in the wrong order (after checking walkthroughs) which was no wonder at my low level that i found certain bosses really tough, but i still managed to come through, but the districts themselves all have to be done which again is very linear which i didnt like.

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and bg1 has a better gameplan than nwn i would argue that homer definately

bg1 has a huge amount of totally unrelated to the plot quests, all of which are hugely involving and alot of fun

nwn has 1 main quest and all the subquests are generally on the way to the main quest anyway
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in bg1 i felt i could take things at my own pace and end up fighting sarevok at level 4 or level 7 it was up to me

nwn i felt like the game knew what level i would be for each area of the game so there was never any challenge, only two challenges i had in the entire game was klauth (where i had to use my recall stone to go out of a fight and back once) and morag (had to use lots of potions)
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bg1 is a genuinely challenging game, to beat it you have to have v.good tactics, esp if you dont want to lose a party member.

nwn your henchman is generally a retard and i was continually resurrecting him, no tactics involved because your a single person and i could wade into 10 enemies in every fight and come out with barely a scratch.
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bg1 you have the advantage of approaching the game from so many different directions, different npcs, different quests, the game is never the same twice

nwn you feel like even if you played it through again all you can change is to go a little bit evil on choices ie instead of persueding someone for more money you hack em up for more money, and you feel the other thing you can change is your character, that for me is not enough reason to play again.
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theres all sorts of other reasons, but seriously the single player campaign of nwn doesnt live up to bg, im not saying it should, two different types of game which the editor makes up for BUT you compared them and said they were equal, i hope you can see why i think bg is superior in terms of gameplay construction.

[Ronn_Bman]

NWN? It's a great game with a very good solo mod. Obviously, I'm biased. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Grungi, you make a lot of good points, but ultimately, since everyone is different, it's personal. For everyone that disagrees there is someone else who agrees. For everyone who is ambivalent, there is someone who is exuberant. It all depends on your perspective.

There is no denying that with all the character types and mods this game offers more replay than any other D&D game.

Here is a listing of the awards it's won and the reviews by those who gave the awards. Admittedly, some of these folks I've never heard of, but others are quite well known and respected in the industry.

In the end, it's a game who's value to an individual can only be determined by the individual.

[Grungi]

of course, but i was asked to provide reasons as to why BG1 SINGLE player is better than nwn SINGLE player campaign. Also something to look at is: BG1 coding was started in about 1996 i think or 1997 thats a long time ago yet its still a hugely played and still sold game, nwn single player will not still be played by such numbers of people in another 4 years, indeed in 5 years i doubt people will still be creating mods for nwn let alone playing the single player.

Everything comes down to personal opinion of course, but theres plenty of reasons why BG1 is better REGARDLESS of opinion. Non-linear is better than linear, i dont know anyone who wants a rpg where you go from A to B and thats it, so non-linear is better. Atmosphere and scope are also very important, and baldurs gate has a better atmosphere.

In terms of expandibility of course BG1 loses out, but i wasnt talking about that (remember when bg1 came out internet play was hardly a given for a game, and mods and the like were not widely known about or used) im talking solely about the single player game, and most people will agree baldurs gate has a far better single player campaign than neverwinter nights does.

It annoys me because nwn has sooooo much potential to be really good but doesnt live up to it, which is always a bigger let down, but of course thats where the mods and level design comes in, id love to rewrite the whole campaign, but too much time and too much energy [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Chocolate Man]

I disagree about whether people will still be playing NWN in 5 years. Take Civilization II, which still had a vibrant modding community 5 years after it was released. This was despite the many limitations and problems with the game and editor. Just like the QA people can't find every bug or anticipate what crazy sequence of events someone could set off, you cannot know what creative ways to use the editor and game engine people will think up. Now, I'm not saying that NWN will definatly still exist 5 years from now, but I think there is a very good chance for that to happen.