Single-payer health care plan dies in Senate

[Felix The Assassin]

Like, love, or hate, the Senate has spoken!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091216/..._care_overhaul

[Papa Schlumpf]

Sanders acknowledged the proposal lacked the votes to pass, and he chose to withdraw it after Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., exercised his prerogative and required Senate clerks to begin reading the 767-page proposal aloud to a nearly empty chamber. After three hours, they were 139 pages into it.

Still wondering why the fillibuster option exists in the first place...

[Chewbacca]

A victory for the insurance industry and opponents of socialism.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Papa Schlumpf Still wondering why the fillibuster option exists in the first place...

No majority is going to remove it because the next election cycle they could become the minority.

[Cerek]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca A victory for the insurance industry and opponents of socialism.

The insurance industry is going to "win" either way. I told my r/l buddies last year that the insurance industry would find a way to still get their share of the pie with national healthcare and they did.

The current plan makes health insurance mandatory! That's about as a big a "win" as the insurance company can get, since several people now do not carry insurance for one reason or another.

Rest assured, no matter what happens with the healthcare bill, the insurance industry is going to come out with a slice of the pie.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Cerek The insurance industry is going to "win" either way. I told my r/l buddies last year that the insurance industry would find a way to still get their share of the pie with national healthcare and they did. The current plan makes health insurance mandatory! That's about as a big a "win" as the insurance company can get, since several people now do not carry insurance for one reason or another. Rest assured, no matter what happens with the healthcare bill, the insurance industry is going to come out with a slice of the pie.

As pessimistic as this sounds, yes, I think it is the harsh reality.

I was not thrilled with mandatory insurance either, but I *was* thrilled about the single-payer option. Pity it died.

While I saw the reasoning behind the mandatory law, I think that may have been the turn-off. A new, cheaper insurance option, regulated not by profit-making insurance companies, but by the votes and laws of the people. More ethical, less profitable. Overall, charitable. But, being forced to adopt it and so quickly - I was not feeling this. I think if this had not been in there, perhaps the government option would have survived as a voluntary choice. And I have no time for anyone who thinks an extra, cheaper choice is a bad thing. I do have time for those who are forced into it, however.

This bill is a tweaking bill as it stands now. It's not reform or overhaul - it's an enhancement. And while something is better than nothing, I can't help but wonder how long before cracks start to show. If there's no new option for the millions who can't afford insurance (me included for many years of my life) then wtf do we have? Nothing really. Even the whole medicare for middle-aged was shot down.

I do think this is the first step though. I expect we will see similiar bills appear from now on in the senate throughout the coming years. But lobbying is very hard to beat, and I would agree with John Edwards back in the debates, you must face these people head on, and crush them. The problem is, with slimy corporations you don't always know who to punch.

[Chewbacca]

Yep, it's the lobbyists' game to lose.

Being a MA resident we already have mandatory insurance. Being here, doing that.

[Cerek]

For once we agree, SW. The current health bill would do nothing to actually "reform" healthcare nor would it lower costs.

I don't oppose the idea of a national healthcare plan, I just have serious doubts our government will be able to produce a workable model that actually addresses the problems of the current system. There are many examples of national healthcare plans to observe and choose from, but I believe most (if not all) of those countries have a Parliamentary form of government. Our government, on the other hand, is an oligarchy, with corporations and lobbyists filling the roles of ruling nobles.

I agree the cracks in our current system will eventually begin to show and, while this bill isn't the answer, it is a good starting point. While healthcare and insurance in America does need to be addressed, we do not need to rush in and fix it overnight. A more thoughtful and thorough approach is needed rather than something thrown together and forced down the nations' throat.

[ElfBane]

How can you be *forced* to buy healthcare? What if you live on...like $12k a year (it CAN be done!) or less? If the health insurance is $300 a month,,,then that's 25% of your income... and makes it even harder to live. The "good Samaritan" system we have now is better than the *reform* !!!!

BO is turning into a racketeer. I was duped by that "yes we can" crap,,, and voted for a Machine Politician who's all blow and no go !

[SpiritWarrior]

You're not forced if you live below your means. There is an income bracket that would be mandated to have health insurance, the same way you are mandated to have car insurance if you can afford a car. But people on Section 8, low income, struggling families etc. would be exempt and originally, would get it for free if they wanted it - which is nice.

And yes, Cerek, it's a Christmas miracle that we agree.