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Old 06-20-2004, 06:04 PM   #11
skywalker
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Both Jose Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamdi are American citizens being helt as unlawful combatants by the current Administration. Neither have gotten a fair, speedy trial, or have been charged with a crime and have been imprisoned for several years.

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Old 06-20-2004, 06:16 PM   #12
skywalker
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OK!

Kobe Bryant: Charged with a crime.
Jose Padilla: Not charged.
Yaser Esam Hamdi: Not charged.

Kobe Bryant: Has a lawyer he can confer with.
Jose Padilla: Has not spoken to a lawyer.
Yaser Esam Hamdi: Has not spoken to a lawyer.

Kobe Bryant: Has a defense.
Jose Padilla: Was accused of crimes in public by the Justice Department, but still not charged, and could not respond to the accusations.
Yaser Esam Hamdi: Who knows?

I can see the parallels between the three of them!

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Old 06-20-2004, 07:47 PM   #13
promethius9594
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well, skywalker, if clear evidence shows that they were indeed engaged in some sort of hostile action against the united states, by law they forfeit their citizenship. since only US citizens are secured by the right to a fair and speedy trial, it would SEEM to make sense that they arent entitled to that right.

BUT, they most certainly have been charged with a crime. the phrase you are looking for is that they havent been TRIED on their charges. and if they ARE treasonists, and fought violently against the united states, i could care less if they rot in those cells with no trial for fifty years
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:56 PM   #14
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by skywalker:
quote:
Originally posted by promethius9594:
the part about american citizens having a fair, speedy trial by their peers (ie, ALL other american citizens)
Hmmm... Can you say Jose Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamdi? ..... I knew you could.


Mark
[/QUOTE]
Must we dance the dance of people who renounce their citizenship wether explicitly or implicitly by commiting acts of treason? You did know I am sure that even a Native born US citizen may have his citizenship withdrawn?

Can you say Jose Padilla and Yaser Esam Hamadi are traitors? I knew you could [img]smile.gif[/img]


[ 06-20-2004, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]
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Old 06-20-2004, 07:58 PM   #15
MagiK
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Originally posted by skywalker:
Neither have gotten a fair, speedy trial,
Mark

Says who? Sounds like this is a matter of opinion and not hard and cold fact to me.
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Old 06-21-2004, 01:32 AM   #16
Timber Loftis
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In the current state of the ICC, bowing before it would just ensure we all get to watch another political weapon be wielded. I hate it that Kobe is currently having to face the trumped-up charges (being used politically by a prosecutor wanting 15 mins of fame), and I would not like to see the same privilege that the little puta bitch who weaseled her way into his motel room is exercising be used against every GI that pays for sex on R&R in Hong Kong and Bangkok, thankee very much. Existing legal travesties ought not be expanded.
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Old 06-21-2004, 05:00 AM   #17
skywalker
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Accused, but not charged.
Innocent until proven guilty? Not really.

Several years in jail could be considered speedy -compared to what?

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Old 06-21-2004, 05:52 AM   #18
Cienden
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Psh. The UN. The unity of the council was shattered at conception and continues as blithely ignorant as it's predecessor the League of Nations. US bad. Israel bad. Genocide mum. Terrorist Palestinians good. Do I really want to subject myself to that organization which was founded by an avowed Communist? I think not.

I will agree that the US courts are ridiculously slow, but then after talking to my father today, who spent the last two weeks as a juror on two separate cases that just concluded (a local misdemeanor and a 72 count child rape case), it's better here than some places.
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Old 06-21-2004, 06:12 AM   #19
skywalker
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It has nothing to do with slowness of the courts, regarding the two cases I cited. They have not had a chance to face a judge yet. They have not been able to contact their families or get meaningful council.

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Old 06-21-2004, 08:27 AM   #20
MagiK
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Originally posted by skywalker:
Accused, but not charged.
Innocent until proven guilty? Not really.

Several years in jail could be considered speedy -compared to what?

Mark


Since neither you nor I are privey to what is actually happening with these people, my guess is that neither of us is qualified to be the judge of that.

Of course that too is just an opinion [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edit: All you and I know is limited to a biased print media who are quoting people who are not involved directly with the proceedings....people who want to be involved...but in reality ..are NOT. (hence they are upset and making accusations to the media)


[ 06-21-2004, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]
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