06-15-2004, 07:12 PM | #31 | |
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Quote:
On March 30, 11 days into the war, Rumsfeld said in an ABC News interview when asked about WMDs: "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." In comments Sept. 10 before the National Press Club, Rumsfeld conceded that he may have overreached. "I said, 'We know they're in that area," Rumsfeld said. "I should have said, 'I believe we're in that area. Our intelligence tells us they're in that area,' and that was our best judgment." "We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat." Mark |
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06-15-2004, 08:43 PM | #32 | |
Ninja Storm Shadow
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[ 06-15-2004, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]
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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
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06-15-2004, 08:58 PM | #33 | |
Ninja Storm Shadow
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[ 06-15-2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]
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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
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06-15-2004, 10:16 PM | #34 | |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
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Quote:
Actually, I should have caught this little nugget in my earlier response... Actually, the original article states: "He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. Yes, some of the facilities were dismantled (which may also explain why there was nothing to be found around Baghdad or Tikrit as Rumsfield had originally suggested), but the components of the various weapons were still very much functional when found by the U.N. Inspectors - and their primary concern was that these components could still be used to manufacture WMD's. In fact, the opening statement of that same article says exactly that.... UNITED NATIONS (AP) - U.N. weapons experts have found 20 engines used in banned Iraqi missiles in a Jordan scrapyard along with other equipment which could be used to make weapons of mass destruction, an official said Wednesday. That is the opening statement of the article provided by the A.P. and posted by Grojlach. It seems to indicate that the U.N. Inspectors consider the possibility of these components being re-manufactured into WMD's to be very real and serious.
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06-16-2004, 04:51 AM | #35 | |
Zartan
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That's why I never really bother with Current Events anymore... Seriously, if you can't even see the difference between the original WorldTribune article and the one I posted from the Associated Press, then we've got nothing left to discuss. [ 06-16-2004, 04:54 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ] |
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06-16-2004, 08:38 AM | #36 | |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
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Every single one of these FACTS was taken from YOUR article - not the article of the World Tribune. The differences between the two articles is irrelevant because I ignored the "spin" from the World Tribune and just focused on the facts contained in both articles. And I do agree that if you can't see these facts for yourself, then there really is nothing left for us to discuss.
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06-16-2004, 11:01 AM | #37 |
Ninja Storm Shadow
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Argueing about the interpitation of the facts is fun, BUT before that can be done the facts must be agreed on. There in lies the problem most don't want to settle on the facts cause it leaves their position weak so they argue about the feelings they have of the facts. That works for BOTH sides.
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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
06-16-2004, 04:48 PM | #38 |
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I'm going to add some more fuel to this fire that both sides can point to and use as ammunition:
Quote from Grojlach's article: ------------------------------- "Perricos suggested that the interim Iraqi government, which will assume sovereignty when the U.S. and British occupation of the country ends on June 30, may want to reconsider "the whole policy for the continued export of metal scrap" which apparently started in mid-2003 and is regulated by the U.S.-led coalition. "The only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," he said, according to the text of his briefing. "These visits provide just a snapshot of the whole picture since the scrap metal has a short residence time and is re-exported to various countries," Perricos told the council." ------------------------------- Now by reading this part of the article it seems to me that the US coalition had to be aware of the export of these components as the article suggests that this was a US program that started in mid 2003 after the invasion. The Al-Samoud 2 missle systems were deemed a violation of the UN resolutions prohibiting Irag from developing weapons systems that could be used beyond the operational range of 150 miles. In late January - early February of '03 the Iraq government was ordered to hand these missles over to UN inspectors for destruction. This was in the process of being completed when the US invaded in mid March. Here is my source for this info: http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/samoud.htm Here is a quote: ------------------------------- "In February 2003, U.N. inspectors evaluated two versions of the Al Samoud 2 missile using four separate computer models. Both versions were found to exceed the range limit of 150 kilometers set by the U.N. Security Council. The lighter version of the Al Samoud 2 was estimated to have a range of 193 kilometers, while the heavier version would be capable of a 162 km range. Accordingly, it was requested that all Al Samoud 2 missiles and warheads be delivered to the inspectors for destruction." ------------------------------- The GlobalSecurity article has all kinds of interesting info on Iraqs missle systems such as secret missle development and conversions of existing missle systems from other countries. It also seems to indicate that some weapons development by the Iraq government was within the UN guidelines with the major exception of WMD. This is all just food for thought - use it how you like. [img]smile.gif[/img] |
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