So, What do you think?

[Zink Whistlefly]

Originally Posted by Kakero ...But attacking from the back is still the best so that a boss can't parry your attack and kill your tanks or you getting the dreaded 1 hit kill cleave and some other things.

Isn't this true for dodge too (I guess you can't dodge what you can't see coming), and if so, why is expertise such a valued stat for melee PvE DPS when you can try to stay behind them?

[Kakero]

Originally Posted by Zink Whistlefly Isn't this true for dodge too (I guess you can't dodge what you can't see coming), and if so, why is expertise such a valued stat for melee PvE DPS when you can try to stay behind them?

Attacking from front - mobs/boss can parry/dodge/block your attack
Attacking from back - mobs/boss can dodge your attack

Usually people tell you (a rogue) not to attack from the front as this will cause the boss to parry your and will sometimes alright kill your tank.

EP Value for mutilate (copy and pasted from ej forum. sorry I don't know how to make boxes)

Stat EP Str 1.1 Agi 2.0 Crit 1.6 Exp 2.0 Haste 1.6 ArPen 1.1 MH DPS 4.1 OH DPS 3.1 Hit is worth about 2.9 below the yellow hit cap, 2.2 below the poison hit cap, and 1.4 above both caps. For weapon speeds, each .1 increase in MH speed is around 35 EP and each .1 increase of OH speed is around 75 EP

As you can see, expertise is an important stat for rogues.

[Memnoch]

OK I had to spend about an hour training my dagger skill up to 390 /400 from 100. I'm still a little confused about the rotation for grinding/non-raids. I'm guessing I don't use SS at all now right?

So open with HFB --> CS --> SnD --> then Mut --> autoattack --> Mut --> Cold Blood --> Envenom or something like that? So the damage gets more bursty?

[Kakero]

For outdoor/non raid mobs. There's really no need to use hfb or snd. Outdoor mobs die too fast anyway.

Open with cs->mut->ks->mutx2->envenom

or

Open with cs->mut->envenom->mutx2->envenom

If the target is poison immune,

Open with cs->mut->ks->mut till dead

Edit : but if there are too many people in the area, do this

Fly to the mobs->dismount->Fok->mutx2->envenom->mutx2->envenom

or

Fly to the mobs->dismount->Fok->mutx2->ks->mutx2->envenom

or

Fly to the mobs->dismount->Fok->mutx2->ks->mut till dead if target is poison immune

Switch Fly to the mobs->dismount->Fok to Run->Fok if the place is non flyable like inside of a cave.

[Memnoch]

Well, I tried out my Mut spec on heroic Vault last night, we dropped the guy easy but I was only doing about 2K dps (click link for my armory and gear):

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n&n=Scabandari

Top dps were 2 hunters doing 3.5k and 3k, then there were about 6 between them and me doing between 2.8k and 2k. I still haven't got my rotation down pat and I kept missing HfB, etc. so maybe with gear and improved rotation I will improve.

I also noticed that Mut is crap in terms of taking down multiple targets - with Combat you can always use Blade Flurry - Killing Spree and FoK but with Mut you're limited to FoK and with that and Mut you never have energy.

[Kakero]

You'll need patchwerk (naxx) to test your dps.

I've check your spec, you don't need vigor for pve. In most cases, the only time you would have a full energy bar is during the start of the fight. Even if you pool energy,your energy should never reach 110 (or 120 with glyph).

You'll need to run heroics and get some badge gears for upgrades. Plus get exalted with factions. For your weapon, A Liberian Paper Cutter in the off hand will give you a dps upgrade.

Yeap, mut is pretty poor on mobs. Usually I just CB+FoK and auto hit the mobs.

[Memnoch]

How do you find your dps against trash? I'm finding that Mut is really crap against trash for some reason (esp. ones that die quickly).

[Kakero]

Mut is terrible against trash mobs. There's not much you can do except fok and hit them one at a time.

I see that you have switch back to combat.

[Lord of Alcohol]

Well I made a joke toon, Tomshane about six months ago. Shane Company is an actual jewelry company in many cities nationwide in the US. They have relentless radio ads, and I mean relentless. I do not actually live in a Shane city but lived in 2. Anyway over the last six months with me spamming diamond ads its actually become quite hilarious. People actually defend Tomshane in trade lol, and today I was literally choking with laughter as I ported into Dalaran and saw an arguement over who was thougher, Tomshane or Chuck Norris. My god....what have I done.....

[Memnoch]

Originally Posted by Kakero Mut is terrible against trash mobs. There's not much you can do except fok and hit them one at a time. I see that you have switch back to combat.

Yeh, I switched back because I'm still confused about the rotation and my dps was dropping below combat. Besides, we're running 25 man Naxx now and I wanted to see how much DPS I put out as swords and then on the weekend run heroics as Mut and get the rotation down.