Hating Illegals

[Timber Loftis]

I hate illegals. Really, really hate them. And now it's not just in the abstract sense that they drive down wages, provide shoddy work, commit I.D. theft, dumb down the nation, and abuse public services. Now it's personal.

Front page Chicago Daily Law Bulletin, Tuesday, "Prosecutor, PD offices face stiff cuts."

Let's sum it up. The County has been spending a LOT more money in recent years, and to balance its budget it's gonna fire or demote all across the prosecutor and PD offices, and turns out even the Sheriff's Office. My wife, a prosecutor, is gonna be up for demotion.... ain't that a treat. At least 75 of her fellow state's attorneys will be fired. 500 sheriffs will be fired.

Oh, and the drug diversion program is being lost too. As a budget cut, that's retarded because it leads to higher jail populations and clogging of the courts, both of which cost much more than a drug diversion program.

But why? Well... County costs have increased a lot in the past couple of years. Where have the costs increased? County hospitals and emergency care. Specifically, these [deleted] refs and their unpaid medical bills. They go into the ER, the MOST expensive kind of doctor services to provide, and they get their emergency care. They got no green card, no I.D., they give a name and address and then they're gone. Of course those bills don't get paid.

Screw health care insurance. Next time I get sick I'm going to the ER with no I.D. and telling them I'm Hector Gonzalez and live at 6969 S. MLK Blvd.

And you know what the sickening thing about this is. You know what irks me more than anything else. There are 2 cost-effective ways to deal with this crap. (1) Actively find illegals and kick them out, or (2) provide free regular health care insurance to illegals so they don't abuse emergency service.

#1: This ain't gonna happen. It's so.... CONSPIRED.... in this country at the governmental level to keep illegals in the country. Border patrol can't shoot them in the ass, as we've found out. But it's deeper than that. The Social Security office refuses to release information regarding SS#'s ----- INCLUDING information that will lead to the perpetrator of I.D. fraud. If my wife is working on a case where an illegal got busted, she is FORBIDDEN from calling ICE (the new INS). Flat out not permitted to phone them up and have them come pick the guy up (note: legal aliens would actually lose their residency rights if they commit a crime). Why? The City of Chicago loves its construction businesses and the construction business loves its illegal immigrants.

#2: This option actually might happen. The Governator is doing it in Cal-e-fornia. And that, well, that makes me want to slash wrists. Maybe not mine own, but someone's.

Did I mention I hate illegals?

And why won't our politicians do anything about this? Simple.... both parties love illegals. Democrats see them as customers for the social programs they always love to peddle. A population in need is a big old pork barrel for the Spendocrats. And the Repugs... puh-lease. They LOVE business, and business LOVES illegal cheap labor. And with the minimum wage going up (note: a good thing, if illegals were NOT in the picture), the illegal employment market is just gonna flourish.

If this irks you as much as it does me, please, when you have the chance to express your opinion, via a vote or poll or letter to your congressmen, please express it loudly and strongly.

[Larry_OHF]

What you say is true about both parties having their reasons to keep illegals here. I think you are also aware that Lord of Alcohol has suffered greatly at the hands of illegals in North Carolina because he is in the construction business and getting a job is harder now because he does not have the cheaper workers.

What illegals do at the emergency rooms is hurting everybody, and they know they cannot be turned away for care as they would at a private practice and they get away with not paying the bills after the service is offered. Their cases are not necessarily emergencies all the time, either. Sometimes they just go for minor reasons.

What a dark path we're heading down, eh?

[PurpleXVI]

Why do you hate the illegals? They're just trying to survive. Hate the people who hire them. Hate the politicians who don't stop them. Hate the foreign policy that makes their homelands places where they can't feed their families.

Of all the people at fault, they're the ones least to blame. All the other parts are people trying for a bigger profit, the illegal immigrants are generally just people trying to live.

The third and possibly better option is to make it easier to gain citizenship. Then they'll be subject to all the same rules for medical care as everyone else, their income will be taxed and since they will not longer be invisible to taxation there will be much less incentive for business-owners to hire them. At that point the only incentive will be if they work harder than American workers.

The fourth option is to invest in their homelands and getting them on their feet enough that people will no longer need to flee to the US just to eat. But nah, long-term planning is for morans, right?

[Timber Loftis]

Fifth option. Big high wall and land mine along the border. Border guards with orders to KOS.

I hate them because they. chose. to. break. the. law. It ain't rocket science to figure that out. I do, of course, blame those who flatly REFUSE to enforce the law, but believe me there is nothing wrong with blaming the criminal too.

As for investing in their country... well yeah sure we could send a bunch more bribe money to Mexico City so the politicians could dole it out amongst themselves, but let's not pretend it really makes a difference in a land so corrupt. Spending money in their home country might not be nearly as effective as passing a law that makes it illegal for foreign governments to lobby in or try to meddle in American lawmaking. As you may have heard, Mexico has 4 or 5 top-tier lobbying firms with their little weasels scurrying about the capitol each and every day.

[PurpleXVI]

So you believe that when a person has a choice between harming another's financial well-being, and living in filth and starvation, they should choose filth and starvation? I believe there is no way to blame a person for choosing survival over the well-being of another's property. Things are never more important than a dignified life.

You cannot just categorize all lawbreakers as "criminals" and all crime as being worthy of the same hatred. Would you hate a murderer as much as a guy who stole a wallet to feed his family?

Your fifth option is hilarious. Half a month before the tunnel networks under the wall made it collapse.

Attempting to stop lobbying is a hilarious thing. The pro-Israeli lobbies in Washington DC would make it never go through, because it would also stop their "little weasels."

And who said you should pay the Mexican government? Giving them "international welfare" would do nothing other than making them a drain on your national wallet. I said INVESTING. As in businesses. Start up businesses there, create jobs. Teach a man to fish and all that. If you can get jobs at home that pay them as well as jobs in the US, or better, then most of them will stay at home.

[Dundee Slaytern]

Well, I have had experience in capturing illegal immigrants due a 1-yr stint as a coastal RP, so I can empathise with the difficulty of nailing them, especially since the borders of USA are that much bigger.

If a small country like mine can have regular articles on the arrests of illegal immigrants on a regular basis, I can only begin to imagine what the situation is like over there.

[Timber Loftis]

Being poor, starving, living in filth, etc. are NOT reasons or excuses to break the law. There are legal ways to climb out of poverty. The whole Jean Valjean argument ain't gonna fly with me.

I like your presumption that all of Mexico is filth and starvation, by the way.

But let us carry your presumption further. Once they get into America, heck even those born in America who live in filth.... then they are free to burglarize a home, right? I mean they're starving.

And just how much international welfare do you propose we dole out by the way? You do realize that we basically spend more on international welfare than most anyone else already, don't you?

And I guess we won't talk about Denmark cutting its UN payments and renegging on its promises to fund Kosovo rebuilding with the UNDP beginning in 1999. Yes, I know the EU forced it by requiring budget balancing cutbacks. Of course, that just highlights the fact that all of Europe started dipping into UN funds.

But, that's really beside the point. The point is first world nations give and give and give and have tons of aid programs. It still can't magically make life in other countries equal to life here. So, until that Utopian time comes when all places are beautiful lands flush with money and full of duckies and bunnies of a Wordsworthian proportion, we have to keep them from streaming across our border and bringing our economy down too.

No other first world nation on the planet has an open border that's unprotected like the U.S. And ALL first world nations have an immigration policy, and limitations on immigration, and patrolled and enforced borders. Denmark doesn't just let illegal muslims wonder in and begin working "under the table."

Why are we not allowed to be like everyone else? Why is our problem with Mexico one that can't be solved with closed borders the same way Europe deals with its immigration issues?

[ 01-25-2007, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[PurpleXVI]

I like your presumption that I'm saying things which I'm not. But obviously some of Mexico is filth and starvation if Mexicans are willing to go to the US to be second-class citizens with barely even basic human rights just to eat.

They are not free to steal from other people if they can get jobs, no. And apparently they can get jobs in the US and survive on them.

I'd also appreciate it if you could dig up some numbers on % of GNP that the US and various other first-world countries spend. Percentage spent matters more to me than amount spent.

What I like is your opinion that what the EU and Denmark do about UN payments and so forth make whatever the US does A-OK. "Someone else did it, so it's okay for us to!" is not a valid argument. As you say yourself, it's entirely besides the point and apparently nothing but a pointless attack on Denmark and Europe in general.

And no, we cannot magically make their life as good as ours, but what we CAN do is to stop exploiting them and destabilizing their countries so that they'll actually have a chance of improving. You should, maybe, stop making assumptions about my viewpoints and thoughts when I haven't stated them.

I also never said you were not allowed to kick out ones found living there illegally, however that is not the solution to a greater problem. The greater problem is that they are, essentially, being invited there by your businesses even though your state is trying to kick them out. The people exacerbating the problem are not the Mexicans themselves, it's the businessmen and certain politicians. Hate them, fine them, penalize them, and you're closer to solving your problem than any big wall and amount of KOS orders will get you.

We have our illegal immigrants, too, but we must be doing something right because considering how much Americans complain about Mexican illegal workers, you've got a much bigger problem than us. Maybe you should look at how we do it, there's more to it than just closing our borders and hoping they'll go away.

EDIT: Short version, I'm not saying the illegal immigrants are not, to some extent, causing problems, but that you're looking too much at curing the symptoms and ignoring some of the causes which are right at home among your own God-fearing Americans.

[ 01-25-2007, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: PurpleXVI ]

[pritchke]

You sure its the illegals you hate, or the people running your country. If you won a million dollars would you turn it down? Same thing they basically won a free ride so big business can pay cheap labor and make more profits, everyone wins but the true middle and poor class citizens. However can you blame the illegals for taking handouts and anything they are given. If illegal are so stupid as you say how are they so crafty to pump the system for what it is worth, possibly because some nice rich folk in politics and business are helping them, possibly a few lawyers to if the system is paying them. Your anger lies elsewhere same as I don't hate the people who voted for our mayor but the silver tongued devil himself.

[ 01-25-2007, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Timber Loftis]

- Agreed that we should look at how European nations do it. While it won't solve all our problems, especially since we've got a lot more border to close, we could certainly use some instruction. One thing is getting on board with the notion of a fair living wage -- which Europeans outpace us on.

- As I said, I blame our government, its corporate taskmasters, and the illegals. They are all in the wrong on this issue, and it's destroying our middle class.

- I didn't mean to imply they're dumb. It is crafty to do the things they do. Pregnant women jumping the border to have their "anchor baby" drop on American soil, abusing a whole system that's ripe for abuse, etc.

- I'm pointing out how the illegal immigration problem gets big real fast and starts hurting those Americans who wouldn't expect it to hurt them. LoA's difficulties in the contracting profession are an obvious first casualty. Cops and prosecutors getting the axe... not so obvious.

- The whole system bears analysis. It's a tale of making something illegal, then not enforcing it, then offering amnesty to those who broke the law. It's the most obvious example of government/business corruption out there right now. And it's right in front of our face and all out in the open.

Oddly, the State's Attorney, Dick Devine, is threatening to unionize the whole office to prevent these jobs being lost. As an elected official, he's gonna be forced to fight to keep these jobs or risk losing re-election.