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Old 10-20-2001, 12:04 AM   #1
SecretMaster
Apophis
 

Join Date: October 19, 2001
Location: New York
Age: 37
Posts: 4,666
I hate mages and spellcasters. Whenever i fight one, guess wut? Chain Contigency, with bullsh*t things. Then timestops and such. Liches i can handle, but when i fight mages, i have to go away from them and rest, and that gets annoying. Any hints on how to quickly kill them, and wut u think??? Thanx
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Old 10-20-2001, 12:55 AM   #2
Thrawn
The Magister
 

Join Date: June 18, 2001
Location: straton, colorado, usa
Posts: 124
LOL the sad thing is i'm good at the game and have been playing on insane mode for so long with mage or any subtype of mages, aka bards, and few others like the norious kenshi/mage, clerc/mages, etc... and ive got quite good at mass killing theose spell caster, that i can do the *spoiler*mage staff quest*spoiler* in one try every single time i play the game and that's without the addon ToB and watcher's keep heh if i did that before the mage staff then well...

anyway egough of my ranting here's some tips.


okay who is in your party? and what level.

An tip, a clerc is very helpful with undead types of mage like liches, cause the clerc is geared toward unnatural creature like demons, undeads.

okay here's some tip and sugrestion for mages if you got any.

For liches( i know u can handle some, but if you hit the *mage staff quest* there is a mega tough lich plus later in game and tob, liches get tougher, not that much tougher but can be hard for peoples who are newer to the game.

Okay every time i fight a lich it never fail to follow the same patten, the second i piss him(she) off an chain contigency and other crap suddenly triggers and theyre all protected up with their protect from god spells. Now most if not all lich start off the same but here is little varration, some start off by casting symbol death, symbol stun, symbol fear.

Now the symbol death is easely countered by the clerc spell death ward (i think little rusty on clercs) then Symbol stun, there are few items in the game i belive that protects from symbol stun i think, *plays mages most of the time so can't use most items* Then symbol fear never affects me because when i face up liches i make sure i include the level 2 mage resist fear, or the level 1 clerc remove fear i belive.

Then those lich follow up with timestop and usualy metor swarm, if you got good fire protection it won't hurt that much if it start to hurt get out and wait for the 4 round to be up then head back in and work on the lich some more. and those who cast the metor swarm usualy follow up by gateing an demon, an tip for demons just cast protection from evil on all your party member then the demon won't know you are there, and just fight the lich, the lich will win of course but he will depline a lots of his spells, and possiable be injuried.

others lich follows different patten but its basicaly the same for most lich.

anyway as i said earler clerc rocks for fighting undeads, if you haven't figured it out theyre geared toward unnatural creature, i mean check holly bolt, or sunbeam, now sunbeam that's a kickass spell for destroying undead, they have to save other wise they get hit by 1000+ pt of damage and nothing i know can surive that kind of damage. to my knowledge. and if you got an clerc/mage like aerie you can chain contigency 3 holy bolt which i think do 8d8 to undead and 10d8 to demon i think, *sorry kind of rusty on spells esp clerc, because i use an specalized set of spells on my uber sorcerer*

now that almost take care of the liches, but there are few more tip if you have a level 20 clerc do turn undead and it usualy explodes liches. Demilitches now that's a different story for an different time

Now correct me if i'm wrong, isn't liches not affected by any spells under level 5? if so don't use them its an wase.

Now if your fighters are not damageing the lich OR MAGES then he probably have stoneskin, and protection from magic weapon, mattatles, etc... now if you have mages cast the spell called Breach which removes all combat protection, but it DOSEN"T remove Spell protection, but breach is useful if you got fighters pounding on the lich/mages however i think liches are immune to level 5 and below spells and breach is level 5 so its useless for liches but for mages now it works on them and is great to rip them up fast, just get your fighters on them then breach them couple time to make sure all combat protection were removed.

Okay general mages, now they got spells protection, if you casted breach u removed combat protection for melee fighters so they can pound on the mages but if your mage/clerc wish to help out then you got to remove spell protection, and that's harder. okay there is the universal useful dispel but if youre low level verus a high level its very unlikely to work however if youre high level verus an low level then it'll work, oh another tip, palidans i think insquishers have dispel as a speical ability and its 2x their levels so an level 40 insquier that use his dispel speical ability has an effective casting level of 80 i think * if the tob level 20 cap don't affect speical abilities, if they do then its casting level of 20* so it usualy dispel most everything, including your own protection

Now if the mage vanishes from view use the spell true sight, and bring that sinking mage back in your view it also remove mirror images, and invisiablity, improved invistiablity, if the enemy mage has improved invisiablity you can't target him, and even after he makes an attack it still shimmers and u still can't attack him with spells u can with melee but that's different story.

okay there are couple useful spells for removeing mage protection, one of them is spell strike, pierce shield, kabelith warding whip, among many others, if you need more info ask us or read the game manual it should list the spells and their description or check it in game.

another thing is spell casting distruption if your mage get hit there is a chance that he/she will fail at casting their spells. so mief's acid arrow is great in this regard lasts 2 rounds i think, first round u hit the mage and distrupt the mage, then it causes couple acid damage for the following round or two which will give u time to cast a spell or two. and this is great verus long casting spells like time stop which takes time to cast. another great distruption spell is magic missiles, the all universal useful spell. some time simple spells are all that is required to do the job u don't go after the longest and complexest spell when n faster casting and simpler spell will do the job.

another tip is mirror image, its useful with area effect cause each images will take up an area effect say you have 5 images, the mage cast fireball now you won't be damaged but you now only have 4 images. its useful and also don't forget stone skin so there is less chance of you being distrupted when casting spells, and belive me being distrupted when casting timestop can be painful, its an level 9 spell you don't have many level 9

now here's some tip for thiefs,

my all favorite way to kill mages are to kill them before they even know you are there then they can't bring up their protection at all and dies. the most common and best way is to have thief hide in shadow and backstab the mage as he/she is casting true sight then the mage usualy explodes if not is usualy next to dead, now if there is melee fighters get ur thief out of there and bring the normal front liners up forward and then begun to pop out spells at the fighters.


Now back on the subject of spell distruption have you ever play a druid, they have this great spell called insect swarm, it last 6 round and 100% spell casting failure, great for distrupting mages one tip instect plague is higher level but imho its not as good as instect swarm cause it only last 3 round instead of instect swarm's 6 round, and the longer the mage is out of the fight the better.


mages charming or dire charming or dormating your front liners, can be annonying and at times deadly, an great clerc spell can save u a lots of headaches, its called chaoic command, it works even with mind flayers's pysonic attacks.


now here's a link to my favorite spell referial page it include pristly spells and also it describes the author's option on the spell you might not agree with him but you got to admit that there is some good materials on the page, it also includes cheeses you can do with spells, cheeses are kind of minor stuff things you can get away in game but an sane DM wouldn't let u here's the url.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bwscri...s%20Reference/


and oh yeah don't diss the mages an lowly 80 hp mage can whoop your 300 hp fighters with the best equipments there is some debate on this point but in my option mages own, but fighters can defeat mages but it depends on how good the players are and how good the mage/ and or fighter is prepared.


Oh yeah about the url above, xyx goes into deepth on mages spells and its very useful bloody heck even an veteran like me uses it some time to u know and also do read the manual it also contains lots of information and is well written, you noticed didn't u?!? i mean its an inch or two thick!

Oh an update, i was just checking on the site and noticed that liches are immunite to any spells below level 5, so dispel or breach won't work unfortualy so you will have to relay on level 6+ spells to hurt the lich, and ransakha are wrost theyre immunte to all spells up to level 7 so that only leaves the level 8 and 9.... but most of them are in general melee, ive ran into some spell caster but most ive seen were meleers.

[This message has been edited by Thrawn (edited 10-20-2001).]
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Old 10-20-2001, 12:59 AM   #3
SecretMaster
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Join Date: October 19, 2001
Location: New York
Age: 37
Posts: 4,666
Holy crap, thanx dude, just wut i needed. My party is
Jorlon-Cavalier
Minsc (and Boo)-Ranger
Jaheria-Fighter/Druid
Aerie-Cleric/Mage
Imoen-Mage dualed from a thief.

Right now i'm in the third level of watchers keep, though haven't played in a while.

And please tell me wut the General Discussion forum is.

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Old 10-20-2001, 01:23 AM   #4
Thrawn
The Magister
 

Join Date: June 18, 2001
Location: straton, colorado, usa
Posts: 124
hmm okay japh that's good you got her, she's great at distrupting mages with her instect swarms, don't use plague its short duration swarm is much better.

anway watchers's keep ahhhhh i rember it so much fun oh yeah do you need help with demmilitches? and secondly are you doing watchers's keep in SoA or Tob?

Almost forget, the general discusion forum is where peoples discusion stuffs like life, etc anything within reason that is, as long as they follows the rule you can post almost anything within reason in the discussion forums.

[This message has been edited by Thrawn (edited 10-20-2001).]
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Old 10-20-2001, 02:37 AM   #5
Dundee Slaytern
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 10, 2001
Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore
Age: 41
Posts: 11,063
*cough* *cough*

My fail-safe stragedy against enemy Mages. Use Skeleton Warriors, either from your own Mages or Clerics( need to be level 15+).

The enemy Mage only has one Death Spell, once he/she exhuast that Death Spell, Skeleton Warriors own their ass. This applies true to Liches as well.
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Old 10-20-2001, 04:50 AM   #6
IrishHound
Dungeon Master
 

Join Date: August 18, 2001
Posts: 94
I think the info on liches being immune to 5th level and lower spells is wrong. I have used breach on many a lich with success.

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Old 10-20-2001, 06:07 AM   #7
Barry the Sprout
White Dragon
 

Join Date: October 19, 2001
Location: York, UK.
Age: 41
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Hmmm, thought I might get my 2 cents worth in here. I find a good tactic against high level mages is to use a thief/generally stealthy person. Run in to their line of site and when they start casting stuff run away, they will waste spells like time stop etc. They will cast it and then not be able to see anyone so they won't cast any of their really good offensive spells. Also stuff like Protection from Magic Weapons will wear off after a little while. It might seem a little boring but it works quite well. Also it is amazing how well traps work against liches (and, in fact, anything else...).

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Old 10-20-2001, 09:26 AM   #8
frudi_x
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Join Date: June 29, 2001
Location: the pale blue dot...
Age: 44
Posts: 294
how to kill a lich in a couple easy steps:
1. enter his line of sight, he fires of a spell trigger consisting of spells like Mislead, Fireshield, Stoneskin or Protection from Magical Weapons. cast True Sight to dispell the Mislead
2. after that lich starts casting Time Stop. just back off out of his line of sight and once the time stop starts he'll just sit there doing nothing
3. after Time Stop expires use a spell to remove spell protections (Pierce Shield, Pierce Magic, Ruby Ray, Warding Whip, Spellstrike...)
4. use Breach to dispell his Fireshield and Stoneskin
5. whack him once with the Mace of Disruption +1/+2. most of the time liches in SoA fail their saves and just die. if he saves, just whack him again, I haven't seen a lich make a succesful save twice in a row

you can follow a similar strategy with any other mage in the game. you just don't whack him with Mace of Disruption but with your most powerful weapons.
what you might also try to do, if you have a mage wearing the Robe of Vecna, have him cast Melf's Acid Arrow at the mage when you first spot him, before his protections go up. that will most likely disrutp his spellcasting for a few rounds. you can even use a (minor) spell sequencer with two or three Acid Arrows, that will almost be enough to kill the mage outright. or you can put Flame Arrows into a sequencer, two or three of them will almost certainly kill the mage. the important thing is to fire off those Acid or Flame Arrows before he can put up his protections.
also, use weapons that do some elemental damage (Flail of Ages, Frostreaver, Firetooth...) as that goes through Stoneskin. a great weapon for disrupting mages is the Short Bow of Gesen since it's electrical damage goes through almost any protection.
also, you can get a thief, have him wear the Cloak of Non-detection (or use the spell), hide in shadows and try backstabing the mage.

hope you find some of this useful...
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Old 10-20-2001, 01:07 PM   #9
Thrawn
The Magister
 

Join Date: June 18, 2001
Location: straton, colorado, usa
Posts: 124
yup, best way to deal with mages are to kill or disable them before their protection comes up, other wise mages can be tough nut to crack but onice theyre cracked theyre usualy as good as dead.

hmm about the level 5 not working on liches i'm not sure but i got that info from xyx's site that i posted. it might be a bug i don't know some one outta to check the lich creature file to see what's true.


Heh u know mages aren't what they was suported to be, cause of scripting but peoples have been working on improveing mages, dragon etc's scripting to make them smarter and challengeing with the same spells.

Right now i'm hoping that i can get to work on the dragon AI to make it smarter and use it spells more wiser etc... and if your mage put up some certain shield, spell protection etc the dragon will know to breach it or pierce shield etc... that'll make it more challenging.

[This message has been edited by Thrawn (edited 10-20-2001).]
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Old 10-21-2001, 12:16 PM   #10
Kitty
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Join Date: July 22, 2001
Location: Brazil
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Whenever I spot an enemy mage, I get out of his sight and then summon some low level monsters just to serve as cannonfodders. The mage will waste their spells (usually the best ones)on them and activate their protective magics. I keep on summoning monsters till he starts using low-level spells (this can be seen on the dialogue window), wait for a while until his protective spells are gone, and only then I have everyone pounding on him. With this tactic, most mages can resist spell attacks but not hacking-and-slashing attacks, or vice-versa.
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