i found this article interesting.. single men :"why women reject men..."

[Harkoliar]

its a bit long though. read it when you have the time.

edited the title a little.

Why Women Reject Men… And What To Do About it by: David DeAngelo, Author of "Double Your Dating" 06/15/04 Dating Advice Home / Online Dating Home / Opposite Sex Channel / Bullz-Eye Home Most men HATE the idea of "rejection". I'm not talking about "don't like the idea" or "wish it didn't happen"... I'm talking HATE here. The idea of walking up to a woman and having her REJECT you causes most men to instantly feel sick in the pit of their stomachs and literally feel a horrible combination of nervousness and confusion. A guy can psych himself up for an hour to go talk to a woman, but when the moment comes to actually DO IT, EVERYTHING changes. The heart rate shoots up, breathing quickens, eyes dart back and forth, thoughts of rejection fill the mind, and eventually the pressure becomes too much to bare. Most men find this state so scary that they end up deciding to forget about approaching the women... just to end the discomfort. The temptation is great to just "walk away", because just as quickly as the intense nervousness is triggered by the moment one decides to ACT, it goes away when you decide to "forget about it and walk away". The fact that "choosing to talk away" leads to the "instant gratification" of the nervous feeling going away makes it the most popular option. Most of the time (and I'm talking about probably 99% of the time here) men just walk away. They give up before they've even started. I find this topic fascinating. If I just think about it, I can remember MANY times in my past where I wanted to talk to a woman, but I just didn't do it. In fact, many of them are so vivid that I can remember the exact setting, what the girl looked like, who else was there, etc... and I'm talking about situations that happened YEARS ago. These moments obviously made an impression. I can also remember kicking myself for DAYS afterwards for not approaching and talking to these girls. Can you relate? THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ACTUAL REJECTION AND THE FEAR OF REJECTION... I think it's important to realize that there's a BIG difference between ACTUAL rejection (having a girl who is offended, upset, rude, etc. to you when you start talking to her) and the FEAR of rejection (how you feel when you imagine a woman rejecting you). I've found that for me PERSONALLY, my FEAR of rejection is actually FAR, FAR more painful and difficult to deal with than ACTUAL rejection in the real world. The main reason for this is that most of the time when a man starts a woman, she is actually rather nice about the whole affair. Men aren't "rejected" very often! If a woman isn't interested, she usually just says "I have a boyfriend" or "No thank you"... or she'll just walk away without saying anything at all. Out of the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times that I've approached women, I can't remember any time that a woman has yelled "Get away from me you loser! You are unattractive and the very thought of going on a date with you makes me sick to my stomach!" I'm sure it's happened to SOMEONE, but it's never happened to ME. The worst I've had is a woman making fun of the words I used (telling me that my pickup line was lame) or just walking away. No slaps, no boyfriends beating me up, and no yelling. But here's the kicker... You can experience an intense FEAR of rejection EVERY time you consider approaching a woman. Imagine, something you can predict with almost perfect accuracy. You can be in any situation, anywhere, anytime, and still have FEAR of rejection... which will prevent you from approaching a woman. Ah, the power of the human mind. HOW TO DEAL WITH REJECTION... A lot of guys ask me "How do I deal with rejection?" The answer: Don't worry about it. If you get "rejected", you'll be fine. Really. It's no big deal, and it doesn't happen that often. And when it does, you'll recover shortly thereafter. You'll find yourself telling your friends about it, and laughing together. Rejection from a woman is about as painful as getting a "D" on a test. It's basically insignificant. The REAL question is, "How do I deal with my FEAR of rejection?" If you can overcome your imaginary FEAR of rejection, you'll be on your way. WHY WOMEN REJECT MEN... Now let's talk about those rare instances where a woman actually REJECTS a man. For the sake of this discussion, I want to define "rejection" as a woman doing something that lets you know that she's upset and offended that you started talking to her, and she responds in a mean or vicious way to make you go away. I do NOT consider a woman walking away without stopping to talk to you, her saying "No thank you", or any other time when a woman just simply doesn't engage to be "rejection". If you DO consider these things to be rejection, please stop reading now, call your mom into your room, and tell her that it's time you grew up and moved out... and that she'll get over the fact that she can't choose your clothes for you and hug you when you have a boo-boo anymore. I digress... I've found that there are a few main reasons why women actually DO reject men (by the way, it's VERY rare that I actually get "rejected" anymore... it's probably happened to me once in the last 100 times I've started a conversation with a woman... because I don't do dumb-ass things anymore). Here are the main ones: 1. The guy isn't paying attention, and he does something stupid to begin with. Some guys think it's appropriate to walk up to a woman, put their arm around her, and say "Hey baby, you sure do look hot tonight". Some guys don't see anything wrong with following a woman around all night, staring at her constantly, then walking over with a nervous, sweaty-palmed, stalkerish look and saying "You remind me of my sister". These are bad ideas. 2. The guy doesn't stop when he should. If two women are sitting alone at a table in the corner, and one of them is obviously upset, and you walk over to them and say "Hi, can I buy you a drink?"... and the upset one looks at you and says "No thanks, we're in the middle of a conversation" (then looks away from you back at her friend)... and you say "Aw, cummon, have a drink. You need to lighten up and have some fun"... and she looks back at you and says firmly "We're busy"... and you say "What, are you in a bad mood or something? I'm just trying to buy you a drink"... and she says "We don't want a drink"... and you say "Well maybe your friend does"... and the friend says "No, I don't want one either"... OK, hopefully you get it. If you ever do something like this, you are a dumb ass, and you deserve to be slapped and have 47 drinks thrown in your lap. 3. Making a woman nervous with your body language. If you start talking to a woman, but your posture is weak and slumped, your eyes are darting around but not meeting hers, and you're wearing an unbuttoned flannel shirt with one of the tails tucked in, you're probably not going to get a favorable response. If you creep a woman out, things aren't going to work for you. 4. Not understanding a woman's body language and other communication. When you start talking to a woman, she will let you know within a very short time if she's receptive to talking to you. If you've been reading too many books that say "A woman will signal her availability and interest by flipping her hair, licking her lips, and cocking her head coyly at you", then get over it. This stuff happens to Brat Pitt, not to YOU. And if it DOES happen to you, then skip this part. When you first start talking to a woman, she's either going to keep talking to you in an open, comfortable way, or she's not. She's either going to act like things are cool, or she's going to act like they're not. This is an amazing thought, but women get nervous too. They will often stop talking just because they can't think of anything to say, etc. But you need to pay attention. Experience is the best teacher here. My simple point is that MOST GUYS CAUSE REJECTION by what they're doing. They aren't paying attention, or they're doing things that are offensive. If you just avoid a few major mistakes, learn how to start conversations with women, and do a few simple things to things RIGHT, you'll all but totally avoid "rejection" from the women you approach. HOW TO OVERCOME FEAR OF REJECTION The REAL obstacle here is the FEAR. As I mentioned, FEAR of rejection, or IMAGINING rejection when you should be imagining success, leads to walking away. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Ironically, I've found that the best way to overcome my own fear of rejection was to see that it wasn't going to actually happen. The more times I approached women and started conversations and the more I saw that women usually responded positively, the less I imagined things going wrong. This led to a positive feedback loop of me wanting to approach more women and have more success. Here are a few ideas for overcoming your own FEAR of rejection: 1) Go out to a bar, and watch men approaching women. Take a Saturday night, and just go out alone. Find a seat at the bar where things are busy, and just watch. Make sure you visit a place that is REALLY busy, so you can see a lot of people interacting. Now, pay attention. You'll begin to pick out the guys who are approaching a lot of women, asking them to dance, buying them drinks, etc. Watch what happens. You'll be able to see for yourself that most of the time, even if the woman isn't interested, nothing bad happens. You'll also see that when a guy tries to grab a woman who's walking buy, makes a crude sexual comment, or just keeps talking when a woman isn't interested that the woman might escalate and respond negatively. You can watch what works and what doesn't right in front of your own eyes. This will start to reprogram your mind that women don't usually "reject" men, even in the most intense situations where they're being approached all night. 2) Start small. If you have to, start by talking to women who are PAID to talk to you. Go to a mall (one of my favorites). Stores in malls hire attractive young women. Walk into every store, and start conversations. Practice making eye contact. Come up with a few jokes that you can use in any situation ("So, do you own this store? Perfect, then you won't care if I just take some things...") Ask the salesgirls to smell your new cologne (the one you sprayed on your wrist next door) and give you her opinion. The more you do this, the more you'll get used to starting conversations with women you don't know, and having comfortable conversations. 3) Choose one default thing for each situation. It amazes me that guys don't think ahead. They don't plan what they're going to do. As the old saying goes "By failing to plan, you plan to fail". You really need to figure out a DEFAULT thing you can do to start a conversation with any woman, anywhere, anytime. Once you come up with your idea, mentally rehearse it until you could do it in any situation. Then get out and do it. HOW TO AVOID REJECTION AND INCREASE SUCCESS Human beings tend to want to "save face" when it comes to relationships. We don't like the idea that another person has outright "rejected" us, and we ALSO tend to not want to "hurt other people's feelings" by rejecting them. This is one of the reasons why women will often lie and say "I have a boyfriend" when they don't. You must become aware of these "unconscious" processes and motivations, work with them, and eventually become the master of them. Learn to recognize when a woman is "politely saying no thanks", and move on. If a woman isn't interested in you, forget about it. It doesn't matter. Go to the next one. There are plenty. LEARN HOW AND WHY WOMAN FEEL ATTRACTION FOR MEN Most men believe that if they could only overcome their own fear of rejection, and learn how to start talking to women, all their problems would be solved. Not so! Just because you can start conversations with women doesn't mean that they'll feel ATTRACTION for you. It took me a LONG time to really "get" this. It took me even LONGER to realize that there is actually a way to make women feel the emotion of ATTRACTION for you...just by the way you communicate with them. I used to believe that it was a mysterious, lucky accident when a woman felt ATTRACTION. Now I realize that it's only "lucky" for those guys who don't understand it (and very few do). I've devoted a lot of time, effort, energy, testing, and development to design a system that any guy can use to start making women feel ATTRACTION for him. And I'd like you to take advantage of that effort and time that I've invested by checking out my eBook, "Double Your Dating". In it, I break down the process of making women feel ATTRACTION for you into easy, step-by-step exercises and techniques that ANY guy can start using IMMEDIATELY. You'll learn everything from specific exercises to increase your self esteem, to the exact words that I personally use when I approach women... to the specific steps to "getting physical" with women. It's all in there. Go read some of the samples, and check it out here: Free Dating Tips Newsletter and Download eBook I'll talk to you again soon. Your Friend, David DeAngelo

link: http://www.bullz-eye.com/relationshi...004/061501.htm

[ 06-28-2004, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Harkoliar ]

[Ilander]

Yeah, what Davie says is pretty close to the mark...not that I'm terribly successful...just that modern men are predominantly creeps or introverts...which is why this kind of reading is popular....

I have to say, though...with a nod toward roleplaying on this forum...well...Let it be known right now that it is probably not a good "default" topic...gosh, it took me weeks to finally explain that I roleplay to my girlfriend, and explain to her what it is....

[Thoran]

A sales schpiel, but if you skip the last bit it's fairly decent.

If you want to trick women into likeing you then maybe that guys book may be handy. I was never very good at meeting women but when it worked it was usually something along the following lines...

a) she approached me - this was nice but didn't happen too often... just enough to make you realize that women have it SOOOO easy.

b) I was doing something I enjoyed - This worked better for me than anything else I think. I used to play a lot of pool and I was pretty good, I met a lot of girls playing pool (including my wife of 10 years). We'd start out talking about the game and it would let me figure out if I was interested in her or not, if so I'd ask her to be my parter. We'd play and chat, it worked out nicely. I never bought a girl a drink if she wasn't my date, that seems so demeaning to me, but I'd buy the games if we lost and were having a good conversation. I liked pool because I was in my comfort zone around the table, I could be myself. I think it's important NOT to rehearse a bunch of BS lines that you then regurgitate from memory. I dunno about most women but the ones I've always been interested in would smell that a mile away. If thing went well I'd ask her out... I was never into the hookup scene and I wanted to be able to consider when sober if I'd had the beer goggles on.

[ 06-28-2004, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Thoran ]

[Sir Kenyth]

What women want is actually pretty simple. The problem is, the simple explanation doesn't have enough detail to help change your habits.

They want a sensitive jerk (oxymoron?)!

They want confidence, strength, personality, and intellect shown by the way you interact socially with others. They also want looks, but this trait doesn't weigh as disproportionatly as mens in this area. They also want a decent career, but not necessarily wealthy. They want the well rounded guy, and I aint talkin' about your beer belly!

The problem is, they also want someone sensitive, who will put them first and care about their feelings and act upon them. You must also balance this out by not being a milksop who agrees to everything. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself, even with them.

Last of all, an awful lot of people like to only hit on girls out of their league. That's not to say you can't try your luck, but expect your chances of success to decline. If she's the next mag cover with her taut midriff showing and you look like Igor on a Haaagen-Daas diet, don't expect ANY amount of charm and personna to make up for it. Try to date at your level. You'll be much happier.