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Old 09-04-2002, 10:35 PM   #41
Attalus
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Good post, Saz, and I agree that tattos are more accepted in circles outside of the military and the jailhouse. But,this is a fashion, and fashions change. What if, in 20 years tattooing is as frowned on as smoking is now? Easier to quit smoking, and I never thought that I'd type that. P.S., for the record, I don't think that tattoos are anywhere near the public health hazard that tobacco is, but my billing clerk died of Hepatitis C, caused by a tattoo done with a dirty needle.
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Old 09-05-2002, 12:10 AM   #42
Sazerac
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Quote:
Originally posted by Attalus:
Good post, Saz, and I agree that tattos are more accepted in circles outside of the military and the jailhouse. But,this is a fashion, and fashions change. What if, in 20 years tattooing is as frowned on as smoking is now? Easier to quit smoking, and I never thought that I'd type that. P.S., for the record, I don't think that tattoos are anywhere near the public health hazard that tobacco is, but my billing clerk died of Hepatitis C, caused by a tattoo done with a dirty needle.
Hepatitis is always a risk, not to mention AIDS. [img]graemlins/uhoh1.gif[/img] Sorry to hear about your billing clerk. That really is sad. A former roommate's mother, of whom I was very fond, also died of Hepatitis C, but that was due to a surgery performed when she was overseas in Singapore. Back then, I gather that the blood supplies were not as well monitored as they are now. It was seven years later before it manifested, and by then it was too late.

But yes, for every "Tigger" there is out there, there are many backstreet tattoo artists who do not keep up standards, or sanitation. Those are the ones to be worried about.

It's an interesting thing about the "tattoos in 20 years" theory. I can see that, but bear in mind that those in power in 20 years are the ones who are getting the tattoos now! That may help. Still, it is something to consider.

-Saz
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Old 09-05-2002, 04:18 AM   #43
Donut
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Quote:
Originally posted by Melusine:
Nothing wrong with wearing black on occasion It looks nice on most people and goes with all styles [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I mostly wear blue. Apparently blue is the new black this year!

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Old 09-05-2002, 04:28 AM   #44
Donut
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I would like to point out that you should never try to remove a tattoo with a razor blade. It's not funny and it's not clever.
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Old 09-05-2002, 04:31 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord Shield:
in a word - no it isn't

As the resident NPC of IW I feel it is only right to point out the glaring flaw in this statement!
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Old 09-05-2002, 04:41 AM   #46
Epona
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This thread is very interesting, and links in with something I have been pondering for a while about culture and sub-cultures. It seems to me that music is often used (especially in younger age-groups) as a basis for building your whole identity - and I have been wondering why that is the case.

My thoughts on this could be due to the fact that I live in the UK where, I feel, this happens more regularly than in other countries (although I could be wrong). Many times you can tell someone's musical taste just by looking at the way they dress. Mod, Rocker, Skinhead, Hippie, Punk, Ted, Goth, Rapper, Raver - all have a different look and the common cultural binding for each group is the music they listen to. It seems to define the way they dress, wear their hair, beardie, cleanshaven or sideburns (for the men ), whether they get piercings or tattoos, even what mode of transport they favour in some cases.

Why is it that music is so central to self-identity? (At least in many cases). Why do these cultures not build up around what sort of film or art you like, or what sort of job you do?

Of the people who work around me, all adults, most of them are just dressed office style, cos that's the way it is when you work in an office (and plenty have tattoos, I work for the Govt and no way does it stop you getting a job here, even the Police employ people with tattoos now). Some dress in a certain way due to religious culture (eg. Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs). But there are plenty of adults in my office that I can identify as mods, rockers, goths etc.

Any ideas why music forms the basis for so much of our culture? Also is this more common in the UK than in other countries?
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Old 09-05-2002, 09:02 AM   #47
Attalus
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Actually, Epona, I have thought about that, becase it puzzled me, when we had a thread about music once, that so many people, Neb comes to mind, talked about how much music means to them. It used to, to me, (I was a folkie) but now it doesn't at all, any more. In fact, people regularly annoy me by assuming that I love classical music, when, in fact, I can take it or leave it alone. I think that, when one is younger, it is very important to belong to a group, and people who listen to similar music seem to have similar outlooks on life. So, if you dress as a particular subculture does, you are more likely to be identified by others of your inclination, and be, if not friends with them, at least in sympathy with them. Also, emotional turmoil brings out musical desires (playing Frank Sinatra and Linda Ronstadt duringf a divorce, for example) but that does not create the self-identification that you speak of. I have been in offices where the decor was primarily Grateful Dead posters or Elvis memorabilia, and I felt vaguely shocked, not professional, I'd think. But, I guess that stems from the same desire to relate to fellow fans. I guess that I would say that it all comes from insecurity and angst, and I'm sure everybody knows how music helps with that.
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Old 09-05-2002, 10:05 AM   #48
Melusine
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Umm.... this may be a completely ridiculous, far-fetched crazy idea Attalus... but most people I know say music means so much to them because it does!
To me at least it has nothing to do with social stuff. It's great to meet people with similar tastes to you, as it's fun to chat about your favourites with someone who knows something about them, but that's as far as that goes.
Not to say that I don't agree with you at all, I'm sure there we all go through phases as teens for example, where we adopt a style of music complete with fashion and social code, but I think that in an attempt to over-analyse, what we may be overlooking here is that there's another VERY good reason why art, music in this case, is of vital importance to people: simply because it gives them more fun in life. Getting tears in your eyes upon seeing a beautiful painting, gasping in astonishment at a brilliant piece of music enriches a lot of people's lives
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Old 09-05-2002, 10:08 AM   #49
Melusine
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Oh dear... completely in stitches upon reading Wolfie's post
hahahaha! Silly Wolfie! *smack* Hasn't Epona told you it's usually not a good idea to drink & post?

Doh... should read threads in entirety! Donut, up to your old standards again dear!

[ 09-05-2002, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Melusine ]
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Old 09-05-2002, 11:35 AM   #50
Epona
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Quote:
Originally posted by Melusine:
Umm.... this may be a completely ridiculous, far-fetched crazy idea Attalus... but most people I know say music means so much to them because it does!
To me at least it has nothing to do with social stuff. It's great to meet people with similar tastes to you, as it's fun to chat about your favourites with someone who knows something about them, but that's as far as that goes.
Not to say that I don't agree with you at all, I'm sure there we all go through phases as teens for example, where we adopt a style of music complete with fashion and social code, but I think that in an attempt to over-analyse, what we may be overlooking here is that there's another VERY good reason why art, music in this case, is of vital importance to people: simply because it gives them more fun in life. Getting tears in your eyes upon seeing a beautiful painting, gasping in astonishment at a brilliant piece of music enriches a lot of people's lives
Good point Melusine, but it seems to me that music is much more important when defining cultural (or sub-cultural?) identity - at least in the Western world, speaking from experience of living in the UK I can't speak for other countries - than any other form of art. Why does a taste in music define fashion and social code? Why not the other way round?

I am very interested in art, but there is no sub-culture built up around various genres of visual art in the same way as there is around musical genres. Music is the art that for me, and for most people it seems, has more of an influence on the way I dress and act than any other artform. And it's not just restricted to teens, although is more obvious amongst teen groups (part of the whole fitting in and finding your place thing, agreed).

Saw an old schoolmate's dad yesterday, which got me thinking about this - he was and still is the oldest ted in town, greased back quiff etc. and now in his 60s. I'm 31 now, and since the age of 16 when I became interested in music I have gone through various stages including rocker, punk, rude-girl/smart skin, mod, etc. (I have a wide musical taste LOL) but at any one given time I can be found dressing in a style associated with whatever form of music I am listening to predominantly at the time (though I did keep my hair long through most of that period, I knew I would look stupid with it shaved and didn't think it would suit me short, was pleasantly surprised when I finally had the bottle to have it cut). Why do I feel the need to do this? I'm an adult, I don't feel the need to have to fit in anywhere, and I have self-confidence in abundance so it's not an issue of finding my feet. But why do my musical tastes define my identity moreso than any other medium?
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