Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-16-2009, 09:20 AM   #1
Kezardin
Elminster
 

Join Date: June 20, 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 65
Posts: 486
Default Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Howdy,

the thread regarding proposed anti-piracy laws in France sparked my interest, and I decided to do some Leeeeroy Jen...er I mean Googling.

While I'm not opposed to software companies making a fair return on their investment, I'm not a big fan of onliine activation, or the installation of invasive, buggy DRM software. If a company wants to protect their rights, fair enough, but I expect them to tell me so *before* I hand over the folding.

I've just been reading the Reclaim Your Game website. The number of games with Securom 7 certainly surprised me.

http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.php...d=45&Itemid=11

The three games at the top of my list for 2009 were Empire : Total War, Sims 3 and Dragon Age : Origins.

Empire I put back on the shelf when I found out it needed Steam Activation. Evidentally Sims 3 will not have Securom, but there's no guarantee it won't have some other form of DRM software.

Dragon Age..... just have to wait and see....

And having recently brought Sins of a solar empire (on sale), I was somewhat annoyed to find that it now needs extra software, similar to Steam, to download the latest patch(es).

Not happy
Kezardin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2009, 09:35 AM   #2
Sever
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
 

Join Date: October 31, 2002
Location: Western Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 3,293
Default Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Echoed.

The lengths that some game companies are going to is becoming extreme. I've had Bioshock for nearly 6 months now and haven't been able to play it because my gaming rig isn't online. Why does it have to be online?

Grand Theft Auto 4 recently took the cake for absurd measures (that i've encountered), running the gauntlet of installation not only requiring online activation, but registration to 2 other affiliated sites. In its vanilla format, the game can only be launched through Rockstar's website! (Why?! ) Interestingly, all box and manual instructions indicate that all 3rd party registrations are optional, but one soon learns that to be a bold faced lie. I imagine several workarounds have been conjured by the modding community (and promptly labelled "illegal") but too late for me. Rockstar will never see my money again if they're going to pull that shit.
__________________
Say say, oh playmate
i cannot play with you
my dolly's got the flu
boo hoo hoo hoo hoo hoo
Sever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 02:15 PM   #3
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 6,761
Default Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Dragon Age isn't in that list.

I'm pretty sure I read it was going to have only a cd check and a serial, also.
__________________
Once upon a time in Canada...
Luvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2009, 06:07 PM   #4
Kezardin
Elminster
 

Join Date: June 20, 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 65
Posts: 486
Default Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Howdy Luvian,

yep, it looks that way.

Though now the company is pushing the fact that a large amount of down loadable content will be available for the game. Hope that doesn't mean it'll be a half baked release and rely on the DLC to flesh it out.

And looks like major grief with Empire - the TWC website has a 'Rant' thread running to 153 pages and a 'Bug' thread of 53 pages
Kezardin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 12:47 AM   #5
Yorick
Very Mad Bird
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 50
Posts: 9,233
Default Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Do you blame your work/school etc for putting locks on the doors that make it inconvenient for you to get inside, or do you blame the thief for creating a situation that requires locks?

I blame the latter. DRM/online activation may be a flawed response, but your anger is better served at the thieves who've made it a necessity.

I mean what do you want? Piracy killed the Amgia. I wish they'd used DRMs and other methods rather than fold completely.
__________________

http://www.hughwilson.com
Yorick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 01:05 AM   #6
Luvian
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: June 27, 2001
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 6,761
Arrow Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
Do you blame your work/school etc for putting locks on the doors that make it inconvenient for you to get inside, or do you blame the thief for creating a situation that requires locks?

I blame the latter. DRM/online activation may be a flawed response, but your anger is better served at the thieves who've made it a necessity.

I mean what do you want? Piracy killed the Amgia. I wish they'd used DRMs and other methods rather than fold completely.
I don't know Yorick. Both Spore and Mass Effect had online activation and both were actually cracked and released on the net before the games were even available for sale at the shops. What then did the protection accomplish beside limiting the actuals buyers?

There is a difference between a school locking it's doors at night and online activation and limited installation numbers for single player games.

A better question would be do you mind having to take the novel you bought back to the shop every day before you can read it, and then having to burn it after having read it three times?
__________________
Once upon a time in Canada...
Luvian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 01:31 AM   #7
Yorick
Very Mad Bird
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 50
Posts: 9,233
Default Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

The point being, they are reactions against theft to protect their property.

Is it more inconvenient having to speak to a bank teller/gas station attendant through a glass wall instead of face to face? Of course.

Is it more inconvenient having to take shoes off and go through tedious airline security checks?

Of course it's inconvenient, but the fault and blame lies with the thieves etc who necessitate some sort of response. Getting angry at the person or group trying - vainly in the example you provided - to mitigate the loss piracy creates is like getting angry at a mugging victim for carrying pepper spray in their bag.

It's my choice to buy a license to read a book if they require me to go back to the shop/burn after reading etc. It's their product, they can do what they like, and I as a consumer don't have to buy.

But getting ANNOYED at them for requiring this, so they can actually make some return on their investment, (so they can make more books), is pointless and misplaced. The annoyance should be with the thieves and pirates, because if the creators do nothing, why then would they bother making a product everyone is going to steal?
__________________

http://www.hughwilson.com
Yorick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 01:34 AM   #8
Yorick
Very Mad Bird
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 50
Posts: 9,233
Default Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Have a read of 'freakonomics' and the section of the "honor pay" donut selling system.
The donut seller lost out time and again because people will NOT pay for something if they can get away with it, and they think it's not a big deal.
__________________

http://www.hughwilson.com
Yorick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 02:48 AM   #9
Kezardin
Elminster
 

Join Date: June 20, 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 65
Posts: 486
Default Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
Do you blame your work/school etc for putting locks on the doors that make it inconvenient for you to get inside, or do you blame the thief for creating a situation that requires locks?

I blame the latter. DRM/online activation may be a flawed response, but your anger is better served at the thieves who've made it a necessity.
Howdy Yorick,

As I said in the original post, I don't have a problem with companies using assorted DRM methods - I just want to know it's there *before* I buy. Don't think that's an unreasonable request.

And who suffers because of badly implemented DRM methods ? The user, mate. You and me, and anyone else who has troubles caused by Securom, Starforce or whatever.

One DRM method leaves files scattered around your PC, especially in the registry - just peruse some of the DRM removal walkthrough websites.
Another can potentially, over time, cause damage to optical drives.
And there are suggestions that some of the online verification software can leave your PC open to hacking.

So, I want to know first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
It's my choice to buy a license to read a book if they require me to go back to the shop/burn after reading etc. It's their product, they can do what they like, and I as a consumer don't have to buy.
That's true, but you'd be making that choice based on knowing the facts first - you don't take the book home and *then* find out you have to either take it back or burn it.

I've *never* seen a game box that mentions Securom, Starforce, Safedisk, Tages or any of the other software protection methods, which leaves surfing the net in the hope that a website somewhere has the information.

If software companies are so sure that they're doing the 'right thing' with these various DRM systems, why wont they put the information on the box (or the website, if it's a digital download) for the benefit of Joe and Josephine Public ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorick View Post
I mean what do you want? Piracy killed the Amgia. I wish they'd used DRMs and other methods rather than fold completely.
I had an Amiga 500 - great computer, well ahead of its time. But, in my opinion, it was the mismanagement of the parent company (especially their desire to keep as much as possible proprietary) which was the main contributor to the sinking of the good ship Amiga.

(There's another viewpoint at http://www.oldsoftware.com/history.html which says, in part "Much of the downfall of Commodore stemmed from poor marketing, lack of dominance in the business sector, competition from other gaming systems, poor support, poor management, and growing competition")

And I'm aware of how people will rort something if they can - we have 'free' health care in Australia and it's slowly collapsing under the weight of its own costs as people use and abuse the system.

Final point - if software companies lose enough paying customers through buggy DRM implementations, they'll be just as broke as any number of hackers can make 'em.

Last edited by Kezardin; 05-18-2009 at 07:25 AM.
Kezardin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2009, 03:07 AM   #10
Kezardin
Elminster
 

Join Date: June 20, 2001
Location: Sydney
Age: 65
Posts: 486
Default Re: Anti-piracy or anti-customer ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kezardin View Post

Not happy
Howdy Yorick,

my apologies - I missed this bit.

I was/am annoyed, because I have to download all my game patches at the local internet cafe, and apply them offline via a flash drive. The programme I brought, Sins of a solar empire, had patches listed on the net up to v1.05.

But you can only download the newest patches via online software (Impulse).

Nothing to do with DRMs in this case.

It's just that I don't appreciate having the rules changed

Last edited by Kezardin; 05-18-2009 at 06:22 AM.
Kezardin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New anti-piracy law...in FRANCE!! Larry_OHF General Discussion 17 06-11-2009 05:13 AM
New technology is the ultimate anti-piracy answer. Hivetyrant General Discussion 11 11-10-2008 05:53 PM
More MS anti-piracy movement LennonCook General Discussion 4 11-25-2004 11:53 PM
British are anti-Bush not anti-american Donut General Discussion 1 11-18-2003 10:38 AM
Anti-Violence!, Anti-Death Penalty! pro CRPG? MagiK General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) 37 09-21-2001 11:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2021 Ironworks Gaming & ©2021 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved