The Maryland Sniper problem.

Originally posted by /)eathKiller: who is this guy? and why is he sniping people? I mean, come on... what will happen when we capture this guy and find out who he is... WILL we capture this guy? Do we even have a clue as to who he might be? It's scarry! Just anybody could do this sort of thing too, but not just anybody could get away clean O_o this guy is either good or he's crazy, or he's both...

Ummm actually this kind of thing is not all that hard to pull off in an open society. You don't have to be a trained special forces person to learn how to shoot well and an average intelligence and some forethought can allow you to succeed at this sort of thing. All the advantages lay with the guy doing the sniping. He can move around, pick his targets and wait for just the right moment to take the shot and then get away.

He is most definatly crazy if you consider sociopathic or radical miltant actions to be crazy. The fact is Law enforcement is not geered to stop this kind of thing quickly.

[Azred]

Originally posted by The Hunter of Jahanna: From what I know about this thing in D.C. the only similarities are that the victims were completely unrelated, young, old , male and female. Maybe the Zodiac kiler is at it again? They never did catch him ya know.

The Zodiac killings all took place either near water or near places with a name relating to water. Even though they never did catch Zodiac, some theorize that the Unabomber--which may or may not have been Ted Kazynski--was the Zodiac.

The only profile of the Shooter (shooters?) that has produced the most solid leads is geographic profiling. Calculate the times between the incidents and create a mathematical model that predicts the location from which the Shooter most likely originates.

In the thread I started (called Random Shooters) I hypothesized that this person was either a terrorist or the next logical step in the evolution of serial killers.
Terrorist? Highly likely, since now people are afraid to go outside or send their children to school. The only hope of catching this kind of terrorist is to catch them in the act.
Serial killer? Traditionally, serial killers are college-educated white males and are described as being very personable. They are caught because they usually prey on victims of their same ethnic background, typically of the opposite gender. The Shooter has avoided being profiled, because the victims are completely random, except for the method of crime being chosen.

I did say in my previous thread that the Shooter wouldn't stop, because now he (most likely male) has experience and has so far avoided being caught. Whether or not the Shooter is highly intelligent or highly educated, he views himself as being more intelligent than "normal" people.

[img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] There I go again, being unusually verbose.

I hope they catch the Shooter before the copycats happen.....

[ 10-07-2002, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Azred ]

[True_Moose]

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth:

First off, it's terrible the type of things these people have done (I'm assuming two cuz driver+passenger) and I hope they're caught before any more harm comes to anyone. My fav uncle lives in Maryland, and he's a colonel in the army and he's scared in a major sort of way.

Second, saw a graph/statistics right after the Columbine shootings. It showed Canadian murder rate vs American murder rate. Without guns, almost the same. Without guns, US was like 8 times higher. Just saying...

[Azred]

Curse me for a fool. The Shooter is not a serial killer; the Shooter is a terrorist. I'm not saying he has any links to the Middle East or Al Queda, but he is definitely a terrorist.
Serial killers choose their victims carefully, but the Shooter picks people almost at random. Almost, but not quite--he chooses only public places: schools, gas stations, parking lots, street corners, post offices, and front lawns thus far. Killing is not his goal, only shooting people, because the little boy and the woman in Fredericksburg have both survived.
Besides, the Shooter seems to be two people (a driver and the shooter) and there has never been a pair acting in concert as a serial killer.

The goal of a terrorist is to cause so much general panic that people cannot live their daily lives in a normal manner. Now, people there cannot go to school, refuel their cars, shop, drop off mail, walk through the city, or even mow their grass without thinking "Am I next?".
The only way to catch the Shooter is to have such an overwhelming law enforcement/national guard presence that you effectively have martial law.

[img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] All I can say now is "oh, s***", and I never use language like that here. I certainly hope I'm wrong on this one....

[250]

while some people are debating on the topic of gun control and its ethic values, I just like to say a few words about how terrible this crime truely is.

I know a lil about sniping of morden warfares from a civillian's point of view, so I'd like to comment a few words. if I make mistakes, John and others can feel free to correct me.

no offense, but this shit is pretty fucked up. the mid-school's policy, the refrainment from outside activity is just not enough. sniper-rifle is a terrible tool, its master a terrible killer. I will use a M24 Sniper (a modified Remington 700 firing 7.62mm rounds) as an example.

Sniping requires the mastery of many different skills other than marksmanship. In order to graduate, a student will have to successfully pass a variety of tasks, among them the following: unknown distance shooting for time (up to 800m), firing at moving targets during the day (400m-700m) and night (300m-600m), stalking over various terrain against two sniper instructor observers (requiring two shots at the same target undetected) etc etc

In unlimited visibility condition (clear day), a sniper can detect and engage target up to 800 meters, which convert to approximately half a mile. In case you have no idea how long that is, it is about 8 street blocks, the distance from 1st Avenue to 8th Avenue on California Street, two third of the Golden Gate Bridge main span, or over twice of the height of the Empire State Building at New York.

There is nothing more dangerous than a well aimed shot. Giving the vast population and the non-combat situation, anyone could easily become a victim at any moment, and the killers perfectly blend in with the civillians. Like the news said, the killings are random and can happen at a GREAT distance. No one is safe from the attack, no police force can prevent the crimes. And even if the Long-Range-shooter misses the first shot and the intended victim realizes the threat, there is virtually no chance of surviving a second. The pausing between each shot is approximately 1 second.

The target can be your neighbor's son, your uncle, a stranger next to you on the sidewalk or yourself. It can happen the moment that you step out of your door going to work, but it is more likely when you are getting out of Macy's and returning to your car. The resounding blast like a popping shampion bottle will be the last thing you heard. It is just like that, completely unexpected, unseen, and coming out of nowhere. Worse, you die knowing the perpetrator may continuely comittee the same crimes many times over.

I've read and heard many stories, and experienced (not in reality) it many times to come up with one conclusion: the power a sniper rifle grants is tremendous and terrrible. Thus if it falls into the wronghand, the damage will be sickening. You know I am not a person easily moved, but this crime disturbes/disgusts me to no end.

And finally, a word for the sniper, differing from the cowards who act murder

It takes a special kind of courage to be alone; to be alone with your thoughts, to be alone with your fears, to be alone with your doubts. This courage is not the superficial brand stimulated by the flow of adrenaline. Neither is it the courage that comes from the fear that others may think one a coward. ... The clearest picture of the courage necessary to be a sniper is found in Hathcock's stalk of a North Vietnamese Army General. The stalk covered 2000 meters of flat ground with nothing more for cover and concealment than grass that was only two feet high. Carlos Hathcock crawled "inches per minute and yards per hour" for two days and three nights to cover a distance that could be walked, by a man at normal speed, in ten minutes. The entire time Hathcock was moving into his FFP, enemy patrols were walking all around him. One NVA soldier even brushed Carlos' leg as he walked past the sniper hiding in the grass. On the morning of his fourth day, without having eaten any food and having had very little water, Carlos finally made it into the right spot. He found himself 800 meters from the target area. At the appropriate time, Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock fired his devastating shot, killing the NVA General. Only after having made the shot, did Hathcock exit his FFP to escape the furious search for the sharpshooter who had seriously damaged the command and control structure of the NVA units operating in the area. A coward could not have accomplished this mission; only an extremely skilled and very brave man could. ... It takes a special kind of person to be able place his own life on the line for the good of his country. We have discussed how some definitions are interchangeable, but the terms "sniper" and "coward" aren't. In condemning the quacks and murderers who have used rifles to hurt others we have besmirched the reputations and honor of courageous men. This is dishonest, sloppy and ultimately harmful to society. Let's not condemn the sniping profession because of a few bad people with guns who were nothing more than good (or just lucky) shooters with criminal -- sometimes demented -- minds. The term "sniper" is reserved for the courageous rifleman who, time and again, risks his life in defense of his country to take that one shot -- that, if successful, will make the difference between victory and defeat.

[ 10-08-2002, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: 250 ]

[250]

Originally posted by True_Moose: My fav uncle lives in Maryland, and he's a colonel in the army and he's scared in a major sort of way.

Of course he is, he should be. everyone who truely comprehends the indication should be scared.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by johnny: It doesn't matter if you do so or not Groj. In holland there is a law that says we can't have firearms, but people get shot here almost every week. Gun law or not, people don't mind.

But not nearly as many as in the US, relatively speaking. And most shootings here in the Netherlands are in the criminal circuit, assassinations and all; and not even that often; public shootings are still rare.
And at least over here not every idiot owns a gun; and looking at the number of idiots in our country, I'm *very* glad that's the case. Can you imagine football hooligans with guns? Those morons trying to invade the Government building on the night Fortuyn was killed? People taking measures in their own hands to "solve" problems with minorities in our country? Those are the moments I'm really glad owning guns isn't as easy as in the US.

[Morgeruat]

I heard on the radio this morning that the kid that got shot yesterday is in serious, but stable condition. just wanted to pass it along.

250, for once I actually agree with you about something, good post about snipers.

[ 10-08-2002, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

[250]

Originally posted by Morgeruat: 250, for once I actually agree with you about something.

mmm, thanks?

Originally posted by True_Moose: Just wanted to put in my 2 cents worth: First off, it's terrible the type of things these people have done (I'm assuming two cuz driver+passenger) and I hope they're caught before any more harm comes to anyone. My fav uncle lives in Maryland, and he's a colonel in the army and he's scared in a major sort of way. Second, saw a graph/statistics right after the Columbine shootings. It showed Canadian murder rate vs American murder rate. Without guns, almost the same. Without guns, US was like 8 times higher. Just saying...

Umm there are only 30 million people in canada...we have 10 times the population you do...gee and only 8 times the gund deaths? Id say we are even. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Back on topic....The kid who was shot yesterday is doing much better and trying to sit up int he hospital. he is still in serious condition but doing better! [img]smile.gif[/img] Good news!