the usefulness of a bard

Serak Moonblade · 02-07-2005, 06:35 AM

i had tried a bard briefly in IWD but got really pissed off at dragon's eye where there are traps all over the place.

my part was:
1> dwarf fighter
2> human paladin
3> human cleric
4> elf fighter-mage
5> human rogue-mage (i tried an illusionist specialist once and then a general mage next time round)
6> elf pure mage

i'd replaced the rogue with a bard and then had to restart the whole game after i was on the final level of dragon's eye.

is there any reason i should include a bard the next time and if so what should my party configuration be to support him?

ZFR · 02-07-2005, 08:58 AM

Yes I agree with you here my firend. I do believe too that bards are the least usefull class in a game.
I never include any bards in my party (the sig is just a joke). They're only good for roleplaying reason but otherwise just hinder a party.
The other problem is you cant dual-class them (and even if you could, that wouldnt make them any better). Their thaco sucks. And their (so called) thieving skills are useless compared to that of a normal thief.
So that's basically it. If you want to take a bard remeber he is only someone whom you will have to protect and babysit all the time. Definately however, having such a useless character in your party does make it more challenging.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!I'm only joking!!! -ZFR

[ 02-07-2005, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

Aerich · 02-07-2005, 09:59 AM

Hmmm, do you have HoW? If you do, try to have enough patience to get that bard up to lvl 11 - they get a song that makes up for all the problems. Bards aren't terribly worth it in IWD without HoW, though.

I've played with bards in regular IWD as well as HoW-altered IWD, and they're not THAT bad. They were never meant to be powerhouse characters, but they are good fill-ins.

If you have a bard try this:

Never add to your thief's PP skill - the bard will cover it - that should make your thief more effective, especially if it is a dual- or multiclass (and it should be).

Also give the bard some spells that are dependent on level and have no upper limit (like Skull Trap, Melf's Acid Arrow, etc). For the purposes of duration and spell power, the bard level is used for the mage level - and bards level up quicker.

And you don't have to babysit the bard. Just leave him in back and have him run away from attackers, or cast a simple Mirror Image and charge into melee.

Kestrel Daystar · 02-07-2005, 10:34 AM

Bards rock! Period! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

--Kestrel--

pritchke · 02-07-2005, 11:48 AM

Bards are very good support characters and I never create a party anymore without one. Besides the level 11 song, they have other songs that are very useful as well. One gives your thief that extra motivation he needs to disable that hard trap or open that difficult lock that he could not do otherwise. If your cleric gets scared and hasn't had time to cast resist fear your Bard can be helpful here and sing to take the fear out of your party members and boost morale.

There are also several instruments that are very good that only a bard can use. People have gone through solo using these instruments, and the bards skills. They are expensive but worth it.

While Bards can't learn level 9 spells, and only get a small amount of spells for 7 and 8 they do level up very quickly so are almost as good and useful as having a mage. You actually don't even need a mage if you have a bard, or if you do than feel free to start that mage as a fighter and dual at somepoint, as the bard will back up those missing skills as long as needed anyway.

There main purpose in a party is to sing, or play instruments, and they should be doing this or casting spells rather than fighting.

Thay are also superior picpokets. While not the most useful skill you can get a few rings of Freeaction, and you don't have to waste Theif skillpoints on this skill as was mentioned.

As well there are a few quest that can only be offered by the Bard and having a Bard can only maximize your parties experiance, if only slightly. I think that is it now. Bards will end up with the least kills but they will also make your game way easier in the long run.

So to summarize I feel Bards are the most useful party member to take along.

Now only if they could dance too

.

[ 02-07-2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

NobleNick · 02-07-2005, 05:53 PM

Grrr.. ZFR, you are on my !#@&# list.

Yes, you scored a direct hit, you turkey: I looked at the font color and signature, then at the words, and said to myself, "What the ____!"

Serak Moonblade, O.K., the ditty at the end of MY post is not a joke. Do you have HoW installed? If NOT, then I agree with ZFR. However, HoW supercharged the Bard so much, that they took away some of the Bard's power in IWD2.

If you have a party stacked with warriors; then the Bard's songs (especially War Chant) and her magic and lore abilities make her an excellent addition to a power party. I would not use her as a replacement for the Thief. Here is an example of what I am talking about: (Again, this is ONLY for HoW installed, and for a power party that is going to do IWD and HoW and TotLM. These guys can expect to rake in **WELL OVER** 3 million XP per character in a full party.)

1. DC good_Cleric[12]/Ranger
2. DC Fighter[13]/neutral_Cleric
3. DC Fighter[13]/Druid
4. DC Fighter[13]/Illusionist
5. MC Fighter/Thief
6. Bard

The Bard's War Chant will armor plate this muscular party, and heal them ALL up to 100% after EVERY battle, for FREE, making lower level Cleric healings spells and those extra party naps to regain HP obsolete. This gives your Clerics more free slots for buff spells (which you will want a lot of in HoW and TotLM). By the time the party hits HoW, the Bard is also an excellent Mage, and her lore ability is unparalleled, giving the Identify spell some much needed help. She is the only character that can use the Bardic Horn of Valhalla, which is, in my opinion, the best single item in the game. (It is a rare spell that is available to you as early as the VoS, but is still powerful enough to kick serious butt in the latter stages of TotLM.)

So, to summarize: If you have HoW installed AND your party has a lot of warriors AND you are going to take the party into the expansions, then a Bard is an excellent addition because she:

-Can sing War Chant of the Sith
-Makes a good general Mage, allowing your other Mage to specialize, or even allowing you to fill the "Mage" slot with something else.
-Can sing War Chant of the Sith
-Has lore ability that is off the charts
-Can sing War Chant of the Sith
-Can use Bardic Horn to call berserkers
-Can sing War Chant of the Sith
-Can sing lots of other neat Bard songs
-Can sing War Chant of the Sith
-Can learn to pickpocket, allowing your young Thief to specialize elsewhere.
-Can sing War Chant of the Sith
-Can cast Blur, Mirror Image, and Stoneskin; and fight (or even tank) in a pinch
-Can sing War Chant of the Sith

Hope this helps.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

Marty4 · 02-07-2005, 07:49 PM

I'm surprised, Nick, what about War Chant of Sith?

Aerich · 02-07-2005, 09:58 PM

Hey Serak,

If you play the game on Insane, your bard is lvl 11 by the last level of Dragon's Eye, and it can sing WAR CHANT OF THE SITH.

To sum up the previous posts, including my own - a bard is the best support character in the game and is the only character type that can use one of the most useful magical items in the game (found in Gerth's Equipment Shop, in Kuldahar).

Serak Moonblade · 02-08-2005, 07:44 AM

well reading through your posts gives me a new perspective about bards but i must say that my respect for their potential abilities has not rised considerably. i'll try using a bard next time around just for the roleplaying aspect and also to see what else changes wrt the quests.

by the way i have HoW. and i have completed the whole game on insane. maybe i'll put a bard and try it on HoF.

only thing, i feel that my party above is pretty balanced. i feel a bit sorry to rip them apart. but i'd welcome suggestions on how to reconfigure my party so as to protect them against the chills of the winter ahead....

Serak Moonblade · 02-08-2005, 09:28 AM

since i hear that there are lesser traps in IWD2 compared to one, a bard seems better in IWD2. how does one negotiate dragons eye with a bard instead of a bard?

02-07-2005, 06:35 AM	#1
Serak Moonblade Manshoon Join Date: November 21, 2004 Location: Mumbai Age: 41 Posts: 169	i had tried a bard briefly in IWD but got really pissed off at dragon's eye where there are traps all over the place. my part was: 1> dwarf fighter 2> human paladin 3> human cleric 4> elf fighter-mage 5> human rogue-mage (i tried an illusionist specialist once and then a general mage next time round) 6> elf pure mage i'd replaced the rogue with a bard and then had to restart the whole game after i was on the final level of dragon's eye. is there any reason i should include a bard the next time and if so what should my party configuration be to support him? __________________ Aut disce aut discede . . . . Either learn or leave

02-07-2005, 09:59 AM	#3
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Hmmm, do you have HoW? If you do, try to have enough patience to get that bard up to lvl 11 - they get a song that makes up for all the problems. Bards aren't terribly worth it in IWD without HoW, though. I've played with bards in regular IWD as well as HoW-altered IWD, and they're not THAT bad. They were never meant to be powerhouse characters, but they are good fill-ins. If you have a bard try this: Never add to your thief's PP skill - the bard will cover it - that should make your thief more effective, especially if it is a dual- or multiclass (and it should be). Also give the bard some spells that are dependent on level and have no upper limit (like Skull Trap, Melf's Acid Arrow, etc). For the purposes of duration and spell power, the bard level is used for the mage level - and bards level up quicker. And you don't have to babysit the bard. Just leave him in back and have him run away from attackers, or cast a simple Mirror Image and charge into melee. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

02-07-2005, 10:34 AM	#4
Kestrel Daystar Elminster Join Date: October 12, 2004 Location: The Green Pastures of England\'s Fields Age: 36 Posts: 458	Bards rock! Period! [img]tongue.gif[/img] --Kestrel-- __________________ [img]\"http://img116.exs.cx/img116/7517/signature1en.png\" alt=\" - \" />

02-07-2005, 09:58 PM	#8
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Hey Serak, If you play the game on Insane, your bard is lvl 11 by the last level of Dragon's Eye, and it can sing WAR CHANT OF THE SITH. To sum up the previous posts, including my own - a bard is the best support character in the game and is the only character type that can use one of the most useful magical items in the game (found in Gerth's Equipment Shop, in Kuldahar). __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

02-08-2005, 07:44 AM	#9
Serak Moonblade Manshoon Join Date: November 21, 2004 Location: Mumbai Age: 41 Posts: 169	well reading through your posts gives me a new perspective about bards but i must say that my respect for their potential abilities has not rised considerably. i'll try using a bard next time around just for the roleplaying aspect and also to see what else changes wrt the quests. by the way i have HoW. and i have completed the whole game on insane. maybe i'll put a bard and try it on HoF. only thing, i feel that my party above is pretty balanced. i feel a bit sorry to rip them apart. but i'd welcome suggestions on how to reconfigure my party so as to protect them against the chills of the winter ahead.... __________________ Aut disce aut discede . . . . Either learn or leave

02-07-2005, 08:58 AM	#2
ZFR Legion Symbol Join Date: February 14, 2002 Location: Ireland Age: 39 Posts: 7,367	Yes I agree with you here my firend. I do believe too that bards are the least usefull class in a game. I never include any bards in my party (the sig is just a joke). They're only good for roleplaying reason but otherwise just hinder a party. The other problem is you cant dual-class them (and even if you could, that wouldnt make them any better). Their thaco sucks. And their (so called) thieving skills are useless compared to that of a normal thief. So that's basically it. If you want to take a bard remeber he is only someone whom you will have to protect and babysit all the time. Definately however, having such a useless character in your party does make it more challenging. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!I'm only joking!!! -ZFR [ 02-07-2005, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

02-07-2005, 11:48 AM	#5
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 49 Posts: 3,491	Bards are very good support characters and I never create a party anymore without one. Besides the level 11 song, they have other songs that are very useful as well. One gives your thief that extra motivation he needs to disable that hard trap or open that difficult lock that he could not do otherwise. If your cleric gets scared and hasn't had time to cast resist fear your Bard can be helpful here and sing to take the fear out of your party members and boost morale. There are also several instruments that are very good that only a bard can use. People have gone through solo using these instruments, and the bards skills. They are expensive but worth it. While Bards can't learn level 9 spells, and only get a small amount of spells for 7 and 8 they do level up very quickly so are almost as good and useful as having a mage. You actually don't even need a mage if you have a bard, or if you do than feel free to start that mage as a fighter and dual at somepoint, as the bard will back up those missing skills as long as needed anyway. There main purpose in a party is to sing, or play instruments, and they should be doing this or casting spells rather than fighting. Thay are also superior picpokets. While not the most useful skill you can get a few rings of Freeaction, and you don't have to waste Theif skillpoints on this skill as was mentioned. As well there are a few quest that can only be offered by the Bard and having a Bard can only maximize your parties experiance, if only slightly. I think that is it now. Bards will end up with the least kills but they will also make your game way easier in the long run. So to summarize I feel Bards are the most useful party member to take along. Now only if they could dance too . [ 02-07-2005, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

02-07-2005, 05:53 PM	#6
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	Grrr.. ZFR, you are on my !#@&# list. Yes, you scored a direct hit, you turkey: I looked at the font color and signature, then at the words, and said to myself, "What the ____!" Serak Moonblade, O.K., the ditty at the end of MY post is not a joke. Do you have HoW installed? If NOT, then I agree with ZFR. However, HoW supercharged the Bard so much, that they took away some of the Bard's power in IWD2. If you have a party stacked with warriors; then the Bard's songs (especially War Chant) and her magic and lore abilities make her an excellent addition to a power party. I would not use her as a replacement for the Thief. Here is an example of what I am talking about: (Again, this is ONLY for HoW installed, and for a power party that is going to do IWD and HoW and TotLM. These guys can expect to rake in WELL OVER 3 million XP per character in a full party.) 1. DC good_Cleric[12]/Ranger 2. DC Fighter[13]/neutral_Cleric 3. DC Fighter[13]/Druid 4. DC Fighter[13]/Illusionist 5. MC Fighter/Thief 6. Bard The Bard's War Chant will armor plate this muscular party, and heal them ALL up to 100% after EVERY battle, for FREE, making lower level Cleric healings spells and those extra party naps to regain HP obsolete. This gives your Clerics more free slots for buff spells (which you will want a lot of in HoW and TotLM). By the time the party hits HoW, the Bard is also an excellent Mage, and her lore ability is unparalleled, giving the Identify spell some much needed help. She is the only character that can use the Bardic Horn of Valhalla, which is, in my opinion, the best single item in the game. (It is a rare spell that is available to you as early as the VoS, but is still powerful enough to kick serious butt in the latter stages of TotLM.) So, to summarize: If you have HoW installed AND your party has a lot of warriors AND you are going to take the party into the expansions, then a Bard is an excellent addition because she: -Can sing War Chant of the Sith -Makes a good general Mage, allowing your other Mage to specialize, or even allowing you to fill the "Mage" slot with something else. -Can sing War Chant of the Sith -Has lore ability that is off the charts -Can sing War Chant of the Sith -Can use Bardic Horn to call berserkers -Can sing War Chant of the Sith -Can sing lots of other neat Bard songs -Can sing War Chant of the Sith -Can learn to pickpocket, allowing your young Thief to specialize elsewhere. -Can sing War Chant of the Sith -Can cast Blur, Mirror Image, and Stoneskin; and fight (or even tank) in a pinch -Can sing War Chant of the Sith Hope this helps. -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

02-07-2005, 07:49 PM	#7
Marty4 Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 31, 2004 Location: VA Age: 33 Posts: 1,127	I'm surprised, Nick, what about War Chant of Sith?

02-08-2005, 09:28 AM	#10
Serak Moonblade Manshoon Join Date: November 21, 2004 Location: Mumbai Age: 41 Posts: 169	since i hear that there are lesser traps in IWD2 compared to one, a bard seems better in IWD2. how does one negotiate dragons eye with a bard instead of a bard? __________________ Aut disce aut discede . . . . Either learn or leave

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