Evil Gas Guzzeling SUV's save the day!

[Timber Loftis]

SUV's don't get me upset at all. Small ones, like mine are great. Normal ones are fine.

It's the absolutely stupidly huge never owned by anyone who would use them monsters that are the epitome of good ole American gluttony. Escalade, Expedition, etc. Plus, who the hell needs 4 television sets in an Expedition. What a waste. If you think these aren't common, let me introduce you to my brother-in-law in Miami who sells Cadillacs.

TL...would that be a straw man sitting next to you? nation wide, your Escalades and Caddys are far rarer than the common working vehicle. Not everyone everywhere is a Miami drug lord ya know.

But int he end, again, who gave you the right to say what they need? or how many TV's they should have in their vehicle?

[ 02-20-2003, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: TL...would that be a straw man sitting next to you? nation wide, your Escalades and Caddys are far rarer than the common working vehicle. Not everyone everywhere is a Miami drug lord ya know. But int he end, again, who gave you the right to say what they need? or how many TV's they should have in their vehicle?

I *can't* tell them what to do, nor would I. I can scoff at their vehicle and wish more people felt like I do, though. And yep, straw man of course. But, these vehicles are quite prevalent there, FYI.

LOL Yeah I know Miami is kind of a unique place too, only been there once and briefly at that.

Honestly, I don't like yupies who drive these things either, because it is a waste. On the other hand a reasonably sized SUV is somethign I consider a family must have if you can afford one....Emergencies do happen, and Id rather be prepared.

[gaunty]

within 5 miles of where i live, there are 6 light to medium industry companies.

all 6 corp's are owned by one big happy family. the family are bosnian imagrants 1st and 2nd generations. been here more than 50 years, started from ground up.

95% of the companies products are diesal truk, SUV, and heavy duty pick-up truck
parts.

sure let us get rid of all these heavy duty trucks, privet and busines. you will put a hole lot of people out of work.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by gaunty: within 5 miles of where i live, there are 6 light to medium industry companies. all 6 corp's are owned by one big happy family. the family are bosnian imagrants 1st and 2nd generations. been here more than 50 years, started from ground up. 95% of the companies products are diesal truk, SUV, and heavy duty pick-up truck parts. sure let us get rid of all these heavy duty trucks, privet and busines. you will put a hole lot of people out of work.

I'm all for promoting business, but it is not the only consideration. If we extend your rationale ad infinitum then drugs and kiddie porn should be okay because there would be jobs created in the newly-arisen industries.

Besides, people will still buy cars if they don't buy SUVs. And, the diesel and heavy duty trucks you mentioned are created for use in business and industry and will exist independent of whether or not every Suzie Soccer Mom drives a Navigator.

[Thoran]

Originally posted by MagiK: How many of those $50,000 escalades do you think are out there? Ill bet ya dollars to donuts for every escalade there are 10 suburbans or other real working SUV's. If you don't see the SUV's being used, then you dn't live in farm country [img]smile.gif[/img] or timber country, or mining country. People may not use them for hauling every single day, but they fill aneed, otherwise they never would have come into existance inthe first place. At any rate, the bottom line is, in this country you don't have to justify your actions to the government or eco groups. We are supposed to be free to pursue happiness and freedom as long as we break no laws.

I'd wager that for every SUV that is used as a "working vehicle" there are 10 Escalades, and a thousand normal SUV's that the owners have spent way too much on to be willing to load them with anything. SUV's are the modern Soccer Mom vehicle, the next generation min-van for the "mini-van's are soo... like... yesterday" people. You don't see soccer moms breaking nails loading bricks very often, but when I pick up my kids at school I see a WHOLE lot of SUV's. In fact, I was looking today, just out of curiosity, out of 13 cars waiting when I was at school, there was 1 normal sedan, 2 minivan's, and the rest were... you guessed it... SUV's. [img]smile.gif[/img] It was even worse when I lived in LA last year, the number of Escalades and Lexus SUV's was astounding. SUV's are pure status symbol for these people (which encompass the majority of SUV buyers based on what I've seen). Slammed suburbans with "Dubs" were the order of the day, I imagine cut springs and 20" rims does a lot to improve the utility of Suburbans. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And as far as where I live... I grew up on and around farms, and my father BUYS timber for a logging company, can't say I've been mining though. In any case, farmers use trucks, not SUV's. The farmer I know who owns an SUV treats it just like everyone else who owns SUV's... as a big family car. He's got an old beat up pickup for farm work, just like every other farmer. Farmers know the value of a dollar (at least most of them do), and I just don't see them blowing $35k on a work vehicle that can't do what a pickup can do and costs more.

I'm not one to tell others what to buy... these are my opinions. I don't think SUV's should be illegal, I merely think they should be paying much more for insurance (commensurate with their greater risk of injury to other parties in a collision) and should be forced to adhere to the same fuel economy standards as other cars. The only thing I think should be illegal is modifying the ride height more than say an inch from stock. Trucks and SUV's with huge lifts and big tires dangerous, even in mild fender bender type accidents they can result in the death of the occupants of the other vehicle.

[Timber Loftis]

Actually, here's the problem, legally, with SUVs.

Cadillac DeVille comes with an extra $3K cost - gas guzzler tax. A good tax, IMO, from the "tax waste not work" school of thought. Pay to pollute - a bedrock principle of fairness.

SUVs avoid the gas guzzler tax, though. They're considered "working" vehicles - yeah, right - and the gov. carved an exception out of the guzzler tax so small businesses (which use real work vehicles) wouldn't get hit too hard.

So, the Escalade, which pollutes *more* than the DeVille, doesn't get the guzzler tax. For those of you who hate tax loopholes, here's your topic.

Oh, and my mom owns one of the Lexus SUV's - I like it A LOT. Very nice. Built on a Camry frame, but nice nonetheless. It's not that big, IMO - on the small side of the mid-size SUVs. I don't know about the MPG, though.

I'm not against SUVs, I just want people to pay for their polluting lifestyles. If you're buying an Escalade, the $3K polluter tax won't set you back too much. Fair is fair.

[Sir Krustin]

Originally posted by Thoran: I'd have to disagree with that... coil springs can be created with very high stiffness (as with leaf springs, this comes at the cost of ride quality). There are better options for the very few SUV's that would need to carry more than golf bags... coil springs and air bags being the optimum solution I would imagine. IMO the continued use of leaf springs is indicative of the desire of truck manufacturers to maximize profits, not provide capability. NOW... if you start talking about building a rock climber for a reasonable amount of money then leaf springs become a great option. Here's a comparison of two very similar trucks, one IRS with coils, one live axle with Leaf springs, the Caddy (with Coil springs) has greater load capacity. http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/...6_/index4.html

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then because the comparison you just made is false. Sure tha Cadillac carries 1248lbs vs. 1200lbs, but total gross weight is 1000 lbs less in the cadillac than the lincoln. We are also looking at whats basically two 1/2 ton vehicles - if you look at true load carrying vehicles, such as the 3/4 and 1-ton vehicles (eg, the GM 2500HD or Ford 250HD) they are, without exception, leaf spring vehicles.
Even the Toyota (jap engineering) heavy trucks are all leaf springs.

I guess when I think about it, the problem I've got with SUV's isn't the vehicles at all... it's the drivers. They hop in these vehicles and expect to drive them like a family sedan, and because they have a "big truck" they believe they can drive 65mph through ice, snow, and slush. That's why the majority of vehicles I see in ditches every year up here are trucks... it's not that they're inherently dangerous, it's that people don't know how to drive 'em. They don't handle or brake like a decent quality sedan, and people shouldn't be driving them like they do.

I agree 100%. Nothing ticks me off more than the moron so close to me that all I can see in the rearview is his headlamps, in the middle of a snowstorm - because he thinks that because he has 4WD he can stop better than everybody else.

It such a heartwarming sight to see them in the ditch after they blast past you with the horn on.

[Azred]

Why do some people focus on what someone drives instead of what kind of person is doing the driving?

Motor vehicles are simply tools. Some people use them for real work while others use them simply to show off how much money they spent on a new vehicle.