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Old 08-17-2006, 10:03 AM   #1
Jorath Calar
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What the hell is it with Keldorn... does he get comission on each partymember he kills for you? I recently started playing BG2 again and oh my, in the 3 years that have passed it has not lost any of it's glory...
So I decided to take Anomen as I had never played with him in the party I convinced him to revenge his sisters murder, be cause it seemed pretty justified... little did I know he would start slaughtering defenceless women... so of course he was kicked out of the order... then I was in Underdark and he and Keldorn start talkiing and anomen attacks Keldorn and keldorn kills him... in the underdark... so I have to go through the most difficult fights with just a half priest... Aerie... great...
But this reminded me that when I first played the game and had Vicona and Keldorn in the party, He could stand her foul presence anymore so he killed her... thankfully I was still in Athkatla then so I just replaced her... but just so I'm prepared... are there anymore members that Keldorn may Slaughter at very inconvenient places in the game? [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 08-17-2006, 10:39 AM   #2
Dundee Slaytern
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Nope. You just happened to choose the very two( and only two) people that Keldorn may have a beef with. On a side note, Anomen and Keldorn do not spar if Anomen passes his test.
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Old 08-17-2006, 11:26 AM   #3
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Haha! Fantastic story there Jorath. I must say though, you really did walk into that one yourself by your roleplaying choices with Anomen. I just love it when NPCs show some depth in this game. [img]smile.gif[/img]
It may help to remember that Paladins are indeed often honour boundly prone to such outbursts of self-righteousness. I know I expected it when I took him on.

Case in point - in my own recent game, Keldorn's threats to spit Viconia on his sword lead to him having a rather short stay. We did the Unseeing Eye, reconciled his family situation, (bah! officious patriarch!) then I kindly retired him, not really appreciating his kind of prejudice, considering Viconia had not committed any evil acts whilst he had been in the party.

Have a read of the most recent "Paladins" thread for some more meandering thoughts about Keldorn. Six made the slightly embellished sounding observation that Keldorn is in fact 'racist'.
I've not really found quite enough evidence at least from the 'superior' sense of the word to really accept this as being the case, but that could be just my interpretation of 'racism'. There's even inconclusive threads at the Pocketplane forums some pages long which attempt to understand the basis and formation for his prejudice - the most simple of which seems to just fall back to his alignment and the generalisation that 'all drow are evil' and that he has a moral duty to destroy it where possible. If anyone knows more other than the obvious, please elaborate. [img]smile.gif[/img]

On a slightly different note - I might just have to try out Annoyman for once just so I can lure him into these dark sounding acts of vengeance. It'd be swell to see that pompous git come down off his perch.

EDIT:
Ahh the hilarity continues, you and Keldorn and I...self-righteous bastards everywhere, rejoice!...Thanks for that link, Andraste - I hadn't seen it before! Brilliant work! Had me guffawing away, to be sure. (It must be read for Boo's line alone.)

[ 08-17-2006, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]
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Old 08-17-2006, 12:43 PM   #4
Andraste
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My thoughts on Keldorn were burried in here:

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...c;f=2;t=024054

I started out writing about him, but got a little carried away.
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Old 08-17-2006, 05:44 PM   #5
Desuma Malevois
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IIRC Edwin and Keldorn will get into it after a while; however, my game is heavilly modded so it may be from one of my mods.
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Old 08-17-2006, 05:54 PM   #6
Jorath Calar
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andraste:
My thoughts on Keldorn were burried in here:

http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/cg...c;f=2;t=024054

I started out writing about him, but got a little carried away.
That was awesomeThanks for sharing.
A cerebro unfortunatly I play a chavalier so convincing Annoying to seek revenge was not good roleplay for a lawful good character.

[ 08-19-2006, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Jorath Calar ]
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Old 08-17-2006, 06:13 PM   #7
Klorox
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Keldorn rocks man!

Kill those crappy NPCs!
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Old 08-19-2006, 03:00 AM   #8
Illumina Drathiran'ar
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Um.. If "All drow are evil" isn't racist, then I'm not sure what is. Even if it's a belief that's pretty consistently reinforced in Faerun, it's still prejudice.
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Old 08-19-2006, 10:58 AM   #9
Klorox
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Of course it's a racial prejudice. But in a D&D world, where Good and Evil are as distinguishable as black and white, it's not really a bad trait.
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Old 08-24-2006, 11:27 AM   #10
CerebroDragon
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Solid point, Klorox. The more you think about it, the less paradoxical it seems for a 'lawful good' character to have such a generalised prejudice based on race.

@Jorath. Not sure I understand your sentence mate, sorry!

I think it is important however to recognise that by and large in D&D's black and white morality, drow are considered evil often in quite justifiable terms. Its a generalisation, sure, but based on some degree of fact. Ask any Faerun elven family who have lost members due to the infamous murderous drow raids on the surface for instance...but I digress.

@Illumina

I did say I was referring to a specific interpretation of racism with Keldorn. In doing so, I was trying to draw a distinction between your everyday prejudice based upon a generalised morality and actual full-on racism where a race is deemed inferior in intelligence, ability or of lesser hierarchal rank simply due to the colour of one's skin or something equally racially driven.

Now whilst I think Keldorn is obviously guilty of the former type of prejudice, (based upon his patriarchal "paladinly" morality - his treatment of Viconia a testament to this) I'm not so sure if his beliefs can be said to belong to the latter type, thus the reasons for my doubts and earlier claims. [img]smile.gif[/img]

So to attempt a basic summary of what I'm trying to say, here's a couple of possible examples:

"All drow are evil because they are nasty pieces of work, worship evil godesses and openly commit evil acts" (a generalised moral prejudice which Keldorn is more guilty of.)

"All drow are evil, weak and inferior because they have dark skin, spindly little arms and legs, evidencing their lesser genes." (a much more blatantly racist, if somewhat flippant example. But hopefully my distinction makes more sense now.)

I'm sure we can add more to this and analyse some actual concrete comments from Keldorn to broaden the discussion. If someone would like to put forward some actual quotes, that'd be cool!

Cheers,
CD

[ 08-24-2006, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: CerebroDragon ]
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