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Old 06-17-2003, 03:26 PM   #41
MagiK
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Trivia Quiz: Who knows what Ungoliant was?
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One Mother of a Spider...possibly the Mother of all Spiders and her last known
surviving descendant was Shelob [img]smile.gif[/img]
 
Old 06-17-2003, 04:43 PM   #42
Morgeruat
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Question Mark

Is that the one who devoured a silmaril, or was that shelob herself (I was about 13 when I read the silmarilian, nearly ten years now)
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Old 06-17-2003, 05:08 PM   #43
MagiK
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No, I don't think Ungoliant swollowed a Silmaril...I think that would have destroyed her, A wolf swollowed one along with Beren's hand....but it died when the Silmaril ate out it's innards I think....
 
Old 06-17-2003, 06:08 PM   #44
Tancred
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Possibly the Balrog did have wings, but...


No! No! NO! Don't start that again! This hydra-like debate has caused more ill-feeling and spite than you know! The War of the Wing never ends...
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Old 06-17-2003, 08:06 PM   #45
Attalus
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Aw, don't worry, Tancred, we're just sparring. I can see, though, how in a forum with really dedicated Tolkienists, ink (if not blood) would spill. To quote Michael Martinez, "People are very impassioned about their vision of Tolkien's world." True words!
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Old 06-18-2003, 07:51 AM   #46
wellard
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

Attalus as the man said...they had been fighting for quite a while and Gandalf himself laid down and died after the fight...I doubt the thing could have summoned the strength to fly.


Supposition and not therefore admissible

I read that link and the debators are making concessions that I would not. As written JRRT literally said this Balrog had wings...either you accept that or you accept that while being so careful and precise in the rest of the book, he got sloppy here...I don't think so.

True true true, so as Tolkien said, quite clearly, the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings

Of course we will never know since the source of the material is dead....I suppose we could ask his heirs....that at least would be a semi-official ruling..therwise its all mere speculation [img]smile.gif[/img]
Thankfully he did leave one bit of crucial evidence... in the LOTR he says the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings
. You can all put a spin on his words but I think he was capable of saying things as he meant them to be [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I think we can arragantly claim we won that court case Attalus [img]tongue.gif[/img] Now what shall we celabrate with? A nice Penfolds Shiraz perhaps [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]
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Old 06-18-2003, 08:56 AM   #47
MagiK
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Quote:
Originally posted by wellard:
quote:

Supposition and not therefore admissible



I fail to see what suppositories have to do with this. Please pull your head and mind away from that orifice [img]smile.gif[/img]


True true true, so as Tolkien said, quite clearly, the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings



And he clearly also talks about "the wings" spanning the whole chasm too so Neyaaa [img]smile.gif[/img]


Thankfully he did leave one bit of crucial evidence... in the LOTR he says the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings
. You can all put a spin on his words but I think he was capable of saying things as he meant them to be [img]tongue.gif[/img]



Yes he was, which is why he said "The Wings" reached from one side to the other. No I don't have the text in front of me at the moment so I cannot quote the entire passage. However reading and rereading the passages still indicates clearly that there were or were not actual wings. So untill he comes back from the dead, we are correct.


I think we can arragantly claim we won that court case Attalus [img]tongue.gif[/img] Now what shall we celabrate with? A nice Penfolds Shiraz perhaps [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]



I don't hear no jusry proclaiming your victory guys [img]smile.gif[/img] The fat lady has not yet sung!


[/QUOTE]
 
Old 06-18-2003, 09:33 AM   #48
Attalus
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Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:

No, I don't think Ungoliant swollowed a Silmaril...I think that would have destroyed her, A wolf swollowed one along with Beren's hand....but it died when the Silmaril ate out it's innards I think....
Ungoliant was a giant spider, presumably a Maia, though JRRT never explained, who was conned by Melkor the Morgoth into poisoning the Two Trees. Shelob was her last descendent. Carcharoth, the great wolf of Angband, bit Beren's hand off, holding the Silmaril, and the burning pain of the jewel made him mad. He was slain by Huan the Hound, one of my favorite characters in The Silmarillion.
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Old 06-18-2003, 12:42 PM   #49
Cerek the Barbaric
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Real wings...fake wings...smoke wings...hot wings...What difference does it make???

I have a far more pertinent question about the Balrog in Durin's Keep.

In the book (and the movie), Gandalf knows their is a Balrog in the depths of the Keep. That is why he gets so ticked at Pippin for knocking the skeleton (and it's armor) down the well. As powerful as Gandalf is, even HE is afraid of facing a Balrog in combat. So once the party defeats the orcs and ogre(?), he has them running at max dit dit to get out of there before Mr. Fire and Brimstone shows up. Then they get trapped in the Dining Hall and are surrounded by more than a thousand orcs. The situation looks bad and the odds seem unbeatable.

Suddenly, a footstep rumbles through the cavern and a sulphuric smell drifts menacingly into the Hall. Then the Balrog ROARS!!!! - shaking the very foundations of this dwarven-crafted cavern. The orcs ALL run away before you can blink an eye....yet the party stands there transfixed....waiting to see just WHAT could be coming towards them.

EXCUUUUSE ME!!!!! This thing just scattered ALL the orcs like field mice with it's voice alone, it's footsteps cause the bedrock of the cavern to rumble, and even Gandalf turns pale at the prospect of facing it.

WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED TO KNOW???? RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!
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Old 06-18-2003, 12:49 PM   #50
Sir Taliesin
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But weren't the Spiders of Mirkwood Shelob's children? Seems like I read that somewhere. If that was the case, then obviously, Shelob wasn't the last of her line!
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