Moridin - Page 4

Lillie · 03-15-2001, 03:05 PM

Good for you, Moridin!

Hey JJ, good stuff on the perfectionist issue. Also, on the idea of being "miserable, but right" - my therapist liked to use a term called "learned helplessness" - are you familiar with that? Children acquire that behavior to deal with severe abuse situations - then they carry that forward into adulthood to deal with much lesser problems (with troublesome results). Yet another childhood defense mechanism that doesn't work when you grow up.

Lillie · 03-15-2001, 03:07 PM

No apology needed, but thanks Melusine

Reeka · 03-15-2001, 03:27 PM

Moridin:

The dinner date sounds great! Sounds like in this particular thing, she is putting you and your relationship first.

Good to see you smiling.

------------------
Reeka--The Hand of Death

Moridin · 03-15-2001, 03:39 PM

JJ & Lillie--

Your advice is so insightful and helpful. Thank you!

It is exactly as you describe it JJ. I never believe good things can or will happen so that when they don't happen I am not disappointed. I think it stems from the fact that a)Even when I recognize a good thing, I never really accept it or enjoy it b/c of the fear that I may look forward to more 'good' things. and b)Anytime I have been successful, I have never been given any praise/recognition from anyone around me. To me it seems wasted. I like to look at it in a wierd analogy sort of way. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a noise? I feel that way. If I am successful but there is no one around am I really successful? I don't know it is weird but that is how I look at it. I can't enjoy my accomplishments and no one else seems to notice them, so what is the point of accomplishing anything??
I have taken your advice to heart about living today b/c it is the only day you can affect.

Kdog--
THANKS

Melusine--
I am glad you are feeling a little better

I haven't seen Hannibal yet, but loved Silence of the Lambs. Anthony Hopkins has to be one of the best, if not the best, actor of all time!

------------------

It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

Melusine · 03-15-2001, 03:44 PM

Moridin: one thing I notice is that you are very good at describing your feelings, even though I am a different type of person I can totally understand what you mean. That's a good trait which I'm sure will be *so* helpful when you're going to the therapist again!

------------------
Melusine

Your voice is ambrosia

bilqis · 03-15-2001, 07:48 PM

Moridin: I'm so pleased that your wife is making an effort! Going out to dinner together is such a good idea. And you know what? You deserve it!

Some very good insightful 'lessons' here from JJ & Lillie. I'm very impressed.

JJ: what do you do? what is your job that you study behavior so thoroughly?

Lillie: You clearly learned a lot from your experience. I'm so glad you are here for Moridin to benefit from it.

Moridin: I can only listen really. Everyone else is so wise!!

------------------

Having abandoned my search for truth, I am now looking for a good Fantasy.

03-16-2001, 01:20 AM

Congrats on the dinner Moridin, you two deserve it. My own personal not asked for opinion is that the seperate vacations are not 'eine gute idee', however, you must find your own way, as must we all.
Having been in your position before, Moridin, may I suggest something for those times when you have achieved sans witnesses? - sounds silly, but just try it - next time that happens, just stand in fromt of the mirror, and say out loud to yourself - good job, congradulations, and pat yourself on the back. Don't sprain anything doing it

, but acknowledge to yourself OUT LOUD that you did good. That's all. Nothing complicated or extravagent, just take that moment to tell yourself you did good, or deserved the good that occurred. Sounds silly? Think about it. It is YOUR ability to believe you deserve good things and people in your life that you wish to change, right? If you are always dependent on others for your sense of self-worth, you will always be wind-tossed flotsam, looking for a refuge from the fear of unworthiness. When you have finally achieved the ability to honestly look at yourself and fairly judge what and who you are, then you have become your own rock, anchored against the uncertain approval of others. Pain and regret are gauranteed in our interactions with other people. You have to develope the ability to objectively asses your interactions with others. If you have done wrong, you will know, but if you have not, you CANNOT take responsibillty for the irrational reactions of others. A strong sense of self and self worth is how you can do that. Suprisingly, that outlook will inevitably lead you to end up having friends and associates who think similiarly, and overall, they are much more stable and enjoyable people to be with anyway.

Bilqis, communications is really the study of the way and why the point of a message gets across, and also those things - environmental and behavioral - that create 'noise' in the communication channel. The couples interactions stuff is just the result of some very miserable years, some hard and bitterly learned lessons, and alot of reading alot of different stuff. When you have seen so much of the same stuff, inperson and in literature, you begin to realize that there are always some 'core' concepts that can be distilled, no matter what fancy names the latest flavor of the month Ph.D. with a best-seller chooses to call them. In the end, remember - my hardest, most painful lesson associated with this sort of thing is actions speak louder than words. People can say whatever they want, but if you REALLY want to know what kind of person they are, look to what they do.

------------------
When given a choice, take both.

Bahamut · 03-16-2001, 01:39 AM

good for you two moridin!

reeka, why would i break a leg? thats painful! j/k!

sorry, im a lil jumpy today!

------------------

I...AM...BAHAMUT

Moridin · 03-16-2001, 02:53 PM

I will try to keep this brief for your benefit.

Reeka, Lillie, bilqis, JJ/Newbie, Melusine, KdogRex, Bahumut, CB, Yorick, Wolfgir, BK & any others who I have missed, THANK YOU for your support on this and the old thread.

I will update my “letter to Englanders” thread when I get information on where I will be staying and I may post from London, but other than that I am not going to post here anymore.

The reasons: Something happened last night that has made me think long and hard about my life. I will not talk about it here, but the night ended with me thinking, “would I be missed if I left for good?”. This is not a pleasant thought and therefore it is time that I start to change things in my life and this is going to take a lot of my time and effort.

My wife still does not know if she wants to be with me or on her own. Unfortunately the only choices that I can come up with are “live with her or don’t live at all”. I can’t think of the option of living without her. This is one thing I am going to try to accomplish. I really want to live with her, but I would like to be able to say that I CAN live without her.

I really hate to leave this place but I see no alternative. I love my job and they pay me way, way, way more than I deserve, but I have let my work slide and part of that (a large part) is b/c I post here during work. I have to concentrate on my work and remove the stress, that letting it slide has caused . I will not be posting from home, b/c I am going to concentrate on ME and fixing my entire life. Like JJ/Newbie said, I have to start recognizing my accomplishments and start living my life today, not yesterday and not tomorrow. I am going to focus on my accomplishments and start striving for more! Hopefully this makes a little sense and you understand.

Thank you everyone. You truly are friends and I am glad that you have allowed a part of me in your lives. Take care and feel free to email me (address in profile) at any time.

Moridin

------------------

It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

Ladyzekke · 03-16-2001, 03:48 PM

Moridin - Never think you will not be missed! I understand your situation. You need to work some things out. My heart feels for you and I hope you do not leave the board permanently, as I have enjoyed talking with you lately.

------------------

03-16-2001, 01:20 AM	#37
JJ/newbie Guest Posts: n/a	Congrats on the dinner Moridin, you two deserve it. My own personal not asked for opinion is that the seperate vacations are not 'eine gute idee', however, you must find your own way, as must we all. Having been in your position before, Moridin, may I suggest something for those times when you have achieved sans witnesses? - sounds silly, but just try it - next time that happens, just stand in fromt of the mirror, and say out loud to yourself - good job, congradulations, and pat yourself on the back. Don't sprain anything doing it, but acknowledge to yourself OUT LOUD that you did good. That's all. Nothing complicated or extravagent, just take that moment to tell yourself you did good, or deserved the good that occurred. Sounds silly? Think about it. It is YOUR ability to believe you deserve good things and people in your life that you wish to change, right? If you are always dependent on others for your sense of self-worth, you will always be wind-tossed flotsam, looking for a refuge from the fear of unworthiness. When you have finally achieved the ability to honestly look at yourself and fairly judge what and who you are, then you have become your own rock, anchored against the uncertain approval of others. Pain and regret are gauranteed in our interactions with other people. You have to develope the ability to objectively asses your interactions with others. If you have done wrong, you will know, but if you have not, you CANNOT take responsibillty for the irrational reactions of others. A strong sense of self and self worth is how you can do that. Suprisingly, that outlook will inevitably lead you to end up having friends and associates who think similiarly, and overall, they are much more stable and enjoyable people to be with anyway. Bilqis, communications is really the study of the way and why the point of a message gets across, and also those things - environmental and behavioral - that create 'noise' in the communication channel. The couples interactions stuff is just the result of some very miserable years, some hard and bitterly learned lessons, and alot of reading alot of different stuff. When you have seen so much of the same stuff, inperson and in literature, you begin to realize that there are always some 'core' concepts that can be distilled, no matter what fancy names the latest flavor of the month Ph.D. with a best-seller chooses to call them. In the end, remember - my hardest, most painful lesson associated with this sort of thing is actions speak louder than words. People can say whatever they want, but if you REALLY want to know what kind of person they are, look to what they do. ------------------ When given a choice, take both.

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03-15-2001, 03:05 PM	#31
Lillie Dungeon Master Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Candlekeep ;) Posts: 62	Good for you, Moridin! Hey JJ, good stuff on the perfectionist issue. Also, on the idea of being "miserable, but right" - my therapist liked to use a term called "learned helplessness" - are you familiar with that? Children acquire that behavior to deal with severe abuse situations - then they carry that forward into adulthood to deal with much lesser problems (with troublesome results). Yet another childhood defense mechanism that doesn't work when you grow up.

03-15-2001, 03:07 PM	#32
Lillie Dungeon Master Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Candlekeep ;) Posts: 62	No apology needed, but thanks Melusine

03-15-2001, 03:27 PM	#33
Reeka Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: March 2, 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA Age: 70 Posts: 3,255	Moridin: The dinner date sounds great! Sounds like in this particular thing, she is putting you and your relationship first. Good to see you smiling. ------------------ Reeka--The Hand of Death

03-15-2001, 03:39 PM	#34
Moridin Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,735	JJ & Lillie-- Your advice is so insightful and helpful. Thank you! It is exactly as you describe it JJ. I never believe good things can or will happen so that when they don't happen I am not disappointed. I think it stems from the fact that a)Even when I recognize a good thing, I never really accept it or enjoy it b/c of the fear that I may look forward to more 'good' things. and b)Anytime I have been successful, I have never been given any praise/recognition from anyone around me. To me it seems wasted. I like to look at it in a wierd analogy sort of way. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around does it make a noise? I feel that way. If I am successful but there is no one around am I really successful? I don't know it is weird but that is how I look at it. I can't enjoy my accomplishments and no one else seems to notice them, so what is the point of accomplishing anything?? I have taken your advice to heart about living today b/c it is the only day you can affect. Kdog-- THANKS Melusine-- I am glad you are feeling a little better I haven't seen Hannibal yet, but loved Silence of the Lambs. Anthony Hopkins has to be one of the best, if not the best, actor of all time! ------------------ It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant, than open it and remove all doubt!

03-15-2001, 03:44 PM	#35
Melusine Dracolisk Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Age: 43 Posts: 6,541	Moridin: one thing I notice is that you are very good at describing your feelings, even though I am a different type of person I can totally understand what you mean. That's a good trait which I'm sure will be so helpful when you're going to the therapist again! ------------------ Melusine Your voice is ambrosia

03-15-2001, 07:48 PM	#36
bilqis Symbol of Cyric Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: WA, USA Age: 67 Posts: 1,328	Moridin: I'm so pleased that your wife is making an effort! Going out to dinner together is such a good idea. And you know what? You deserve it! Some very good insightful 'lessons' here from JJ & Lillie. I'm very impressed. JJ: what do you do? what is your job that you study behavior so thoroughly? Lillie: You clearly learned a lot from your experience. I'm so glad you are here for Moridin to benefit from it. Moridin: I can only listen really. Everyone else is so wise!! ------------------ Having abandoned my search for truth, I am now looking for a good Fantasy.

03-16-2001, 01:39 AM	#38
Bahamut Iron Throne Cult Join Date: March 12, 2001 Location: Manila, Philippines Age: 39 Posts: 4,864	good for you two moridin! reeka, why would i break a leg? thats painful! j/k! sorry, im a lil jumpy today! ------------------ I...AM...BAHAMUT

03-16-2001, 02:53 PM	#39
Moridin Fzoul Chembryl Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,735	I will try to keep this brief for your benefit. Reeka, Lillie, bilqis, JJ/Newbie, Melusine, KdogRex, Bahumut, CB, Yorick, Wolfgir, BK & any others who I have missed, THANK YOU for your support on this and the old thread. I will update my “letter to Englanders” thread when I get information on where I will be staying and I may post from London, but other than that I am not going to post here anymore. The reasons: Something happened last night that has made me think long and hard about my life. I will not talk about it here, but the night ended with me thinking, “would I be missed if I left for good?”. This is not a pleasant thought and therefore it is time that I start to change things in my life and this is going to take a lot of my time and effort. My wife still does not know if she wants to be with me or on her own. Unfortunately the only choices that I can come up with are “live with her or don’t live at all”. I can’t think of the option of living without her. This is one thing I am going to try to accomplish. I really want to live with her, but I would like to be able to say that I CAN live without her. I really hate to leave this place but I see no alternative. I love my job and they pay me way, way, way more than I deserve, but I have let my work slide and part of that (a large part) is b/c I post here during work. I have to concentrate on my work and remove the stress, that letting it slide has caused . I will not be posting from home, b/c I am going to concentrate on ME and fixing my entire life. Like JJ/Newbie said, I have to start recognizing my accomplishments and start living my life today, not yesterday and not tomorrow. I am going to focus on my accomplishments and start striving for more! Hopefully this makes a little sense and you understand. Thank you everyone. You truly are friends and I am glad that you have allowed a part of me in your lives. Take care and feel free to email me (address in profile) at any time. Moridin ------------------ It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant, than open it and remove all doubt!

03-16-2001, 03:48 PM	#40
Ladyzekke Ironworks Atomic Moderator Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Virginia, U.S.A. Age: 57 Posts: 9,005	Moridin - Never think you will not be missed! I understand your situation. You need to work some things out. My heart feels for you and I hope you do not leave the board permanently, as I have enjoyed talking with you lately. ------------------

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