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Old 11-27-2006, 04:48 AM   #141
T-D-C
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No one here that I can see is arguing that he is innocent.

Most of the arguments here are pushing for him to have his day in court and be put on trial. No one is saying he is innocent but plently of people are crying that he is guilty.

All Wellard wanted to do was raise awarness of the conditions and of a person stuck there for 5 years with no trial. Tell me if YOU were in the same situation wouldn't you want your countrymen doing the same thing?
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Old 11-27-2006, 05:26 AM   #142
machinehead
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Quote:
Originally posted by T-D-C:
No one here that I can see is arguing that he is innocent.

Most of the arguments here are pushing for him to have his day in court and be put on trial. No one is saying he is innocent but plently of people are crying that he is guilty.

All Wellard wanted to do was raise awarness of the conditions and of a person stuck there for 5 years with no trial. Tell me if YOU were in the same situation wouldn't you want your countrymen doing the same thing?
Not if my nations armed forces were engaged in battle against an enemy and one of my countrymen was actively fighting on the side of the enemy, like say the Australian troops fighting in Afghanistan. That would make him a traitor, yes?
Damn, sucked in again!

[ 11-27-2006, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: machinehead ]
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Old 11-27-2006, 09:28 AM   #143
johnny
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Quote:
Originally posted by T-D-C:
No one here that I can see is arguing that he is innocent.

Most of the arguments here are pushing for him to have his day in court and be put on trial. No one is saying he is innocent but plently of people are crying that he is guilty.

All Wellard wanted to do was raise awarness of the conditions and of a person stuck there for 5 years with no trial. Tell me if YOU were in the same situation wouldn't you want your countrymen doing the same thing?
Excuse me, but the topictitle clearly states "free David Hicks", i wouldn't wanna call that an outcry for awareness, but more a demand to release him. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

And if i were in the same situation as Hicks, which is a converted muslim, the last people who i wanted help from, is from my infidel former fellow countrymen who i turned my back on to go live with my new fellow cavemen.
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Old 11-27-2006, 09:49 AM   #144
robertthebard
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To the point of they may not have known the consequences, a simple question. I would suppose that the "pilots" of 9/11 had a pretty firm grip on the consequences. They knew they were going to die, as martyrs, and willingly jumped in. Do you suppose that the "troops" in Afghanistan planned on any less? They knew that that they would probably die, again as martyrs to their cause, and picked up rifles and went to war, if you can call it that. The problem is that he didn't plan on being captured, and Osama probably figured that if the infidels killed one of their own in the field, he could play that to show that Westerners really are dogs. Instead, he was captured, and now he's wishing he hadn't abandoned his wife, kids and job to go be a terrorist.
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Old 11-27-2006, 05:11 PM   #145
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I really am saddened by some of the views in this thread. Some of the attitudes in this thread are shocking. As such I'm not going to be posting in this thread again.
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Old 11-27-2006, 08:58 PM   #146
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by T-D-C:
I really am saddened by some of the views in this thread. Some of the attitudes in this thread are shocking. As such I'm not going to be posting in this thread again.
I agree entirely and will be doing the same.
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Old 11-28-2006, 05:36 AM   #147
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Lighten up guys, what sort of answers did you expect to get anyway ? Did you honestly think you would find. any sympathy for an Australian muslim convert, who went to Afghanistan to join the Jihad against America and it's allies ? How naive can you be ?

I know Wellard a little longer than today, so i know he's not the kind of guy who would do this, but asking Americans to write a letter to their congressman, to ask him if there's anything he could do about the situation of an Australian Taliban/Al Qaeda member who's being held captive for 5 years now, is equal to insulting their intelligence. Name one good reason why an American would do that ? Or why anyone would do such a thing for that matter ? Because he's Australian ? If that's all the reason there is, then again you're insulting people's intelligence. IW is a pretty civilized place, so this discussion was fairly peaceful, but i know of dozens of places where you would have gotten a lot of flak for asking questions like this, because it comes dangerously close to fishing if you know what i mean.

No matter how many ifs and buts you bring up, in the end you're still asking for the release of a muslim fundamentalist, who got caught with his hand in the cookiejar, and it was only to expect that you wouldn't find much sympathy for such a man here, so don't act all disapointed and shocked now, because you could have seen this coming from miles away.
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Old 11-28-2006, 06:41 AM   #148
Iron Greasel
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnny:
...but asking Americans to write a letter to their congressman, to ask him if there's anything he could do about the situation of an Australian Taliban/Al Qaeda member who's being held captive for 5 years now, is equal to insulting their intelligence. Name one good reason why an American would do that? Or why anyone would do such a thing for that matter? Because he's Australian?
Congressmen aside, I think he should be tried because it's AMERICA who's holding him. I understand real americans might see the situation differently, but my trust for the US government has hit the bottom and started to dig. If some nation actually bothers to have a law that allows them to torture people, you can be pretty certain they are going to use it. And my personal opinion is that torture is irredeemably evil.
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Old 11-28-2006, 07:33 AM   #149
robertthebard
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Here's a rub for ya'. He's not Australian any more. He got his citizenship in the UK approved, and they refused to plead for his release, or trial.
Speaking of the trial, in reading some of the material that was provided here, his trial hasn't been buried by the Administrative branch, president et al, but by the Judicial branch, because his defence fought to not have it by tribunal. All the delays that have been laid at the feet of President Bush in this thread need to be retracted, they are Mr. Hicks' fault. He didn't want to be tried by a tribunal, and I can't say as I blame him, so he fought that through his attorneys, and got what he wanted. The US Judicial system requires speedy trials, but if you continuously file for continuances, it's not the fault of the courts if you don't get one. I still don't see what he would even qualify for a trial on, personally, but his not having one already is his doing.
All in all, this has been a pretty civil discussion, considering the subject matter. I'm sorry if believing that no terrorist deserves any kind of respect offends people, but he chose this life. He wasn't born in Afghanistan, he chose to go. He chose to pick up arms against the "infidels", and bragged about his training in a letter to his father. All of this information is available in the links about him that have been provided. Selective reading is just as bad as selective hearing. Ultimately he will get what he deserves, whether that is release, or being executed, or spending the rest of his life in prison, or a significant part of it. The fact remains that Mr. Hicks did this to himself, and blaming America, or Americans for his plight is flat out BS. I know I didn't ship him to Afghanistan.
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Old 11-28-2006, 10:10 AM   #150
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aelia Jusa:
No point in repeating this. Those who read what she said know that the things she put forward were rational, unemotive, and just plain made sense.
Just a pity really that the intransigence of other debators fails to allow them to see the points she made.

Cheers to ya Mel [img]smile.gif[/img]
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