11-05-2002, 07:10 PM | #81 |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
Join Date: May 10, 2002
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand.
Age: 42
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Magik and Timber Loftis- I think you definately have a point in the sense of the unnatural nature of global socialism. However I am aware that alot of the indoctrinist education I received as a young child (during the eighties) centred around the promotion of 'survival of the fittest' ideals. Ambition was word for word encouraged as 'the only way to move foward', which is all well and good, no major dillemma. But, this education had quite an impact on the communal psyche of my generation, one whose real ramifications will only come to the fore when we become the 'generation in charge' so to speak. What my point essentially was is that the measure of success has been personified in the amount of capital one can generate/accumulate, which need not be so. Competitive 'survival of the fittest' ideology is a predominantly Greek thing (handed down to our society over the last 2700 years or so), not a natural , universal phenomenon. Indeed, our views of what is 'natural' and 'normal' behaviour is largely governed in and of itself by this core social belief that we have in our society (which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing). We view the natural world in terms of what correlates to how we live. I would assume that Tibetan Shaolin monks would see 'nature' alot differently.
I have flaws in my logic, I will not profess that I don't. I merely believe that as the current capitalist system we have in operation runs into increasing degrees of difficulty over the next few decades a change of social ideology will be required in order to reshape the way that humans make their living in the world.
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11-05-2002, 08:18 PM | #82 | |
Gold Dragon
Join Date: March 29, 2002
Location: Canada
Age: 51
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Here's a thought though: LEGAL immigration, great! But, you commit one offense and bye bye, you go home! You live in America, you live as an American. You live in Canada, you live as a Canadian. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and religous faith, but no more "China Town," or "Little India," etc... I think you guys get my point. You abide by the laws, rules and regulations of the country you live in. No exceptions. If you don't want to, then you go back where you came from. You commit a federal offense, ie: murder, rape, drug dealing, we'll even pay for the plane back, but we're not gonna land, and you're not gonna have a 'chute.
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11-05-2002, 09:09 PM | #83 | |
Drow Warrior
Join Date: April 6, 2002
Location: Canada
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I think you just nailed the real culprit in the illegal workers problem: the employers. I've worked a few months in the construction business in Canada and i can tell you there is not a single illegal worker because it is heavily controlled by state and union laws. To work in construction you must have at the very least a safety permit, a qualification paper and be able to fit in the union standards (for good or worst... for example, it's tough for workers from other provinces to find work here in Quebec). And nobody who hasn't the right to work here will be able to get these papers, so there no risk of having to compete with immigrants working for .50$ an hour, 18 hours a day. That's true for every unionized type of work i can think of, and all the illegal workers are confined to jobs not covered by legislation (dishwashers, fruitpickers and the textile industry, mostly). Unions are far from perfect, but in some situations they are necessary. Will the State Governor will listen to the working people or the rich bastards who finances his campain (and hire illegal workers). If illegal immigrants don't have decent chances to find a job, they have no reasons to try to cross the border. And if they get their legal status, then they have no reasons to accept to work for .50$ an hour, so they are no longer unfair competition. The real problem is the greedy-as-hell bastards who write the paychecks.
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11-05-2002, 09:14 PM | #84 | |
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11-05-2002, 09:22 PM | #85 | |
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[ 11-05-2002, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ] |
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11-05-2002, 09:55 PM | #86 | |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
Join Date: May 10, 2002
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ps: Yeah I think 'communal psyche' is a silly term too. It just popped out subconsciously. Guess it's just a subliminal part of my communal psych....uhhh, I mean, I guess I should pay more attention to what I write.
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11-06-2002, 01:56 PM | #87 | |
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LoL |
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11-06-2002, 03:48 PM | #88 |
Symbol of Cyric
Join Date: August 18, 2002
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Well I just remembered about this post last night, and I havent read every single thing.
But I get the feeling that people are confusing immigration and illegal immigration. I have aboustley nothing against legal immigration, I (and anyone in America) would be a HUGE hypocrite if they said they were against it. I dont think many people are agaisnt legal immigration, I encorage it. Sign the papers, work hard, dont cause any trouble. Those are the rules for everyone. If you dont follow those rules, then your more than likley not getting everything America has to offer anyway. Just my two cents.
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11-06-2002, 03:50 PM | #89 | |
Xanathar Thieves Guild
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11-06-2002, 04:29 PM | #90 | |
Lord Soth
Join Date: March 5, 2001
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I saw a thing on the news the other day about some orgainzation of Americans who are actually setting up aid stations in the desert to help people who are crossing the border. I thought this was reciculous. While I don't wish death to illegal immigrants, and I don't like people dying in general,we need to have a strict, established, known punishment for those who try to break that particular law. Right now, if you get caught running the border, they'll drive you back to Mexico at the taxpayer's expense and that's that. There is no punishment whatsoever. If it was known and understood that if you try and illegal cross the border you would be shot, or killed on sight- I don't think nearly as many people would make the attempt. It would be tantamount to them deciding to jump off a cliff. They wouldn't do it. It just needs to be known that it's not the U.S. that's executing them. By their act of illegal immigration, they take their life in their own hands and sentence themselves. Is crossing a man made line on a map an offense worthy of the death penalty? No. I don't believe it is. But if there is an action that has an known, established consequence of death (i.e. jumping off of a cliff)then they are the ones who are deciding that the death penalty is a fit consequence for their actions and not us. The bottom line is that it needs to stop and what we are doing right now isn't working.
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