LittleBigHorn

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: There is a word which refers to what you are describing: NATIONALISM. It was invented in its modern form in EUROPE, and has achieved its worst extremes in history in EUROPE. So cut out the holier than thou crap. Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee is indeed a good book. No, there is no justifying how the Indians were treated. The story of the European invasion of the Americas and the treatment of the Indians by the Europeans (and later the Americans after the US became an independent country) is yet another shameful blot on the human race. It differs from many, many other similar events only in that it is one of the more recent in history.

I agree with Diogenes of Pumkintown,
We can go back to the Mongols, Huns, or the Arians (sp?) that invaded and conquered europe. How about the Nubians that invaded Eygpt? or the Eyptians that invaded Nubia? What about the Cro-magnon (sp?) that conquered the Neanderthal? I'm not defending either side I'm just pointing out that almost everybody has been conquered in history. Are we going to keep on piss'n and moun'n about it? Isn't that what is going on in the Baulkins?
As for the American Indians being one with nature, give me a break. the ancestors of most of the southwestern tribes (the Anisai if I remeber correctly)
Distroyed their civilzation by over farming and over population. What about the Mississippians, the mound builders, their civilaztion was distroyed by in-fighting and over population. The newest evidence is that the first inhabitants of the western hemisphere where from Australia (sp?). When the asians crossed the land bridge they conquered their land from them earlier inhabitants. The above are simplificantions but are the gist of what happened. The point is that the American Indians are just like everybody else they put their pants on the same way, ONE LEG AT A TIME.



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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

Originally posted by John D Harris: I agree with Diogenes of Pumkintown, We can go back to the Mongols, Huns, or the Arians (sp?) that invaded and conquered europe. How about the Nubians that invaded Eygpt? or the Eyptians that invaded Nubia? What about the Cro-magnon (sp?) that conquered the Neanderthal? I'm not defending either side I'm just pointing out that almost everybody has been conquered in history. Are we going to keep on piss'n and moun'n about it? Isn't that what is going on in the Baulkins? As for the American Indians being one with nature, give me a break. the ancestors of most of the southwestern tribes (the Anisai if I remeber correctly) Distroyed their civilzation by over farming and over population. What about the Mississippians, the mound builders, their civilaztion was distroyed by in-fighting and over population. The newest evidence is that the first inhabitants of the western hemisphere where from Australia (sp?). When the asians crossed the land bridge they conquered their land from them earlier inhabitants. The above are simplificantions but are the gist of what happened. The point is that the American Indians are just like everybody else they put their pants on the same way, ONE LEG AT A TIME.

What other nation since the Neanderthal has been completely eradicated from the face of the earth? Yes, there are a few Indian nations left but how many cultures were completely wiped out by the Anglo-Saxon colonization of the United States?! You can't count them friend. In spite of the fact that they were "all" Indians, they ALL had cultures of their own and physical differences that made their tribes unique one from the other.

BTW, FYI, The earliest North American Indian remains ever found...those which were determined to be most likely the first inhabitants in this country were related closest to ancient Japenese cultures in the shape of the skulls/eyes, and by the artifacts, etc.

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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[AzureWolf]

Just to add..
This thread WAS NOT intended to be another american bashing thread. Every person has their own individual views on life, and just because they are born into a certain country does not make them fall into some sort of category about how cruel or stupid they are. Now I think Indians have been treated in the past with extreme predjudice and disrespect for their land. But I do not pin the blame on modern day americans. Yes I do think that more could be done to improve Indians reservations etc still today but this is the governments fault for not allocating funds rather than the average american who is not involved in this. Yes I am judgemental about racism in any form, but until someone shows me that they are a bigot and believe themselves to be better than others than I will not pin the blame on anyway.

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"I was born of darkness. My fathers eyes closed before mine opened. I am not of this world or the other, and I have the right to be what I am..."

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by AzureWolf: Just to add.. This thread WAS NOT intended to be another american bashing thread. Every person has their own individual views on life, and just because they are born into a certain country does not make them fall into some sort of category about how cruel or stupid they are. Now I think Indians have been treated in the past with extreme predjudice and disrespect for their land. But I do not pin the blame on modern day americans. Yes I do think that more could be done to improve Indians reservations etc still today but this is the governments fault for not allocating funds rather than the average american who is not involved in this. Yes I am judgemental about racism in any form, but until someone shows me that they are a bigot and believe themselves to be better than others than I will not pin the blame on anyway.

Can I get an amen?



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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

"Amen!"


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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Moni: What other nation since the Neanderthal has been completely eradicated from the face of the earth? Yes, there are a few Indian nations left but how many cultures were completely wiped out by the Anglo-Saxon colonization of the United States?! You can't count them friend. In spite of the fact that they were "all" Indians, they ALL had cultures of their own and physical differences that made their tribes unique one from the other. BTW, FYI, The earliest North American Indian remains ever found...those which were determined to be most likely the first inhabitants in this country were related closest to ancient Japenese cultures in the shape of the skulls/eyes, and by the artifacts, etc.

Moni,
"Instead, they showed close ties to the modern-day Ainu of Hokkaido and their Jomon predecessors in prehistoric Japan, and to the Polynesians of Oceania, according to the study".exerpt from reuters news http://dsc.discovery.com/news/reu/20...americans.html
Acient Austrailians I believe would be considered part of the polynesains of oceania.
I saw a show on the discovery channel about this a couple of months ago. This is a site about the theory (I couldn't find the story on dicovery's site)
www.pip.com.au/~paceman/ABORIGINE.html




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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

The beginning of the article states in its first sentence "People closely resembling the prehistoric Jomon of Japan crossed a land bridge from Asia into the Americas as the last Ice Age waned 15,000 years ago to become the first human inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere, according to a study published on Tuesday."

These are the people I was referring to, the islanders, not mainland Asians.

I think we are on the same track but the Polynesean and Aborginal origins of American peoples started in South America, not North America according to the second article you posted.

I saw this well over a year ago in a filmed documentary of remains found in the desert southwest of the United States...whether or not it was New Mexico, I don't remember but the re-constructed skull bore far to close a resemblance to the ancient Japenese than to Polyneaseans or Aboriginal people and the artifacts found with the skeletal remains were definitely of ancient Japenese persuasion as opposed to the Aborginal and Polynesean beginnings of the peoples of Brazil.

When you get right down to it, we can all be traced back to Africa anyway, right?

You've intrigued me to do some more studying, damn you!








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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!