Does a single-classed Monk need "Concentration"?

[ZFR]

Ya, I forgot about the critical range being different. And after rereading the spell description, it is possible that the percentiles work like you say (definately one occuring, 50/50 each). But that doesn't change much.

However, there are also some points to consider.

Let us say that a critical hit is in fact "7% of all hits with fists." But in truth if so it will not be equal for all creatures but for weak creatures it will be 10% and for strong ones (the ones for which DF's worth something) 4%, since assuming stronger creatures have higher AC, crits will take place less often. This difference is further increased when taking saving throws into consideration, since stronger creatures are more likely to make saves.
If we say that (taking into account crits and saves) x% of hits cause the effect, we have to remember that from x, 75% will be againts weak creatures, hence useless, and from the 25% of those against strong creatures, around half would be when the creature is badly wounded, critical, or already dead from the crit (again useless).

If you mellee-crit a creature, then that creature should be dead within the next 3 rounds at most. If not, its likely a boss or semi-boss and either with high enough save or total immunity to avoid DF effects.
But... it could be slightly useful for ranged attackers like you said, but only for those who attack different enemies that those you're attacking in mellee. Blinding enemies who are at the back lines, archers or spellcasters, could be useful, since those enemies are less likely to die in the next 3 rounds. In those cases DF could be (still very slightly) useful, but that's not what the monk will be doing.

That said, I do agree that a monk may take dirty fighting for lack of better alternatives (does dash stack with monk speed by the way?). After taking all the necessary feats there really isn't much to take. Strong back is useless (no armor). Blind fight might be a tad bit better roleplay-wise (it des sound like something a fighting monk would know) and toughness might give some extra HP. But you definately won't be losing (or gaining) much if you take DF over either of them.

[ 07-02-2007, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

[Klorox]

Aerich, you're right. My Monk is a Deep Gnome Monk, optimized as a Decoy. She's only got an 8 STR, and I do use the mod that applies Weapon Finesse to unarmed attacks.

I was actually considering Blind Fighting, though. If an invisible monster attacks you (I know, it only happens once that I can think of), then you don't lose your DEX bonus to AC. With a (projected) 26 DEX, this could really be significant.

I might go for Dirty Fighting, based on your statement that it's probably at least as useful as Toughness.

I probably won't go for Great Fortitude. It's the least used saving throw, and you need to actually be hit by a spider to need to make a Fort save, which hopefully won't happen very often. The Monk has great saves anyway.

[Aerich]

Take Great Fortitude. It's better than Toughness, IMO. The fortitude save is also used for certain nasty spells (Flaying, Horrid Wilting, Harm, Slay Living, Destruction, some Symbols). Don't forget, one of the best perks of a monk is that you can usually blast away without hurting it, in which case it might have to save against spells cast by your own party.

I'm not sure if Dash stacks, but it seems it should (adds 10 ft per round to movement rate); however, how will you tell? I do agree that Blind-Fight fits RP-wise, but when will you use it except against drow and Viper's Fang assassins? Maybe that's worthwhile enough to justify taking it, in light of the lack of options.

Personally, I boycott Toughness. Instead of 3/3/3/3/3 for a total of 15 extra HP for 5 feats, I think it should go up with the number of feats allocated to it, something like 3/6/9/12/18, for a total of 48 extra HP, which would actually be worthwhile. There's really no benefit to the feat as it stands, because those 3 extra HP only help when the tank is nearly dead (and if that occurs, 3 extra HP aren't going to buy you much time).

[Klorox]

Dash seems like such a waste. A level 30 Monk goes too fast as it is!

[Klorox]

Originally posted by Aerich: Personally, I boycott Toughness. Instead of 3/3/3/3/3 for a total of 15 extra HP for 5 feats, I think it should go up with the number of feats allocated to it, something like 3/6/9/12/18, for a total of 48 extra HP, which would actually be worthwhile. There's really no benefit to the feat as it stands, because those 3 extra HP only help when the tank is nearly dead (and if that occurs, 3 extra HP aren't going to buy you much time).

That Warriors handbook had feats like this. Good idea too!

The only reason I'd go for it is because nothing else is even worth taking. We'll see.

[Klorox]

So basically, when it all shakes out, there aren't really any good feats or skills for a decoy Monk aside from those I'm already dedicated to taking (Dodge, Expertise, Weapon Finesse, Improved Critical... Hide, Move Silently, and Search).

Sounds like it's a fight between crappy and slightly-less-crappy.

[Aerich]

Yes, if you are talking about a pureclass monk-decoy. It's really too bad that it's impossible to max out the AC stats (Dex, Wis) and achieve 13 Int AND 13 Str. Otherwise, Power Attack and Cleave would be great additions, as monks tend to draw clean up duty quite often.

As you know, if you use the monk class in conjunction with other classes, you gain many of the monk benefits and can put skill points and feats to more useful purposes.

For example, a monk multiclassed to cleric (major class) will find the monk class access to Concentration useful, and can spend feats on GSF: Enchantment. A monk that just uses the monk levels as mix-ins is well advised to use weapons, thus weapon proficiencies and Ambidexterity/Two Weapon Fighting can be handy.

I'm testing out a new (to me) variant on the monk decoy-type. It's still in the early stages, since I'm running a new party simultaneously with my party that is currently halfway through HoF. Character planning is as follows:

Drow female Mk3/Ftr4/Wiz4/Cl19(Dreadmaster), LN, 10/20/14/13/18/5; levels taken will be Mk3-Ftr4-C7-Wz4-C19. Skills are HS, MS, Con. Feats, in no particular order, are Dodge, Expertise, LR, IW, GF, Weapon Finesse, Ambi, TWF, RS, IC, specialization in Small Blades (Brilliant Short Sword will be her weapon of choice), and GSF: Enchantment.

[Klorox]

That sounds like a great build Aerich! I'd consider bumping WIZ to level 5 (as the last level-up) for the free feat and 1 3rd level spell.

Did you choose a specialist mage class? With the IWD2 bug, you'll suffer no penalties for doing so and will cast an extra spell per level.

If I ever get around to soloing this game, my build is very similar to the one you present above.

[Aerich]

I thought about increasing the Wiz levels (to get Blink) but I pretty much decided against it. Improved Invisibility cast by another party member is just as effective. There's really no other 3rd lvl mage spell that is very important when the party is lvl ~30, but 19 lvls vs 18 lvls of cleric gives an extra spell at lvls 5, 7, and 9. Maybe I might reconsider once I get to lvl 29.

This build doesn't really need much in the way of feats, since it gets extras from the fighter levels anyway. It takes all the decoy-type feats, adds specialization, finesse, and dual wielding for combat effectiveness (to partially counteract Expertise) and a cleric enhancer (GSF: Enchantment).

I will be choosing a specialist - I'm just not sure which one yet, because I forget all the opposition schools. I know I want to be able to cast Conjuration spells (Mage Armor and Grease), and Illusions, of course (Mirror Image); it would be nice to cast Enchantments (Charm Person) because it would gain potency with the GSF: Enchantment. I'm thinking Transmuter, although I wouldn't be able to cast Shield (Abjuration). However, there's a couple of Shield rings and an amulet.

Be warned that this character is definitely vulnerable early. It's not so much that the character is bad (although Expertise can only give +2 AC at Mk3) as the party hasn't attained many critical buff spells. I had to reload a few times until the character reached lvl 5 (squatted at Mk3 to attain Ftr2 and not take an XP penalty).

[Klorox]

The opposition school doesn't matter with all those cleric levels!