Should USA atack Irak

Just a little phrase/comment that might stir some thoughts.

In an hour of Darkness, a blind man is the best guide
In an age of Insanity, look to the madman to show the way

Maybe this can be reflected on Sedum Hussein (or however you spell his name.)

Note: I do hate Sedam.

[Megabot]

Maybe this can be reflected on Sedum Hussein (or however you spell his name.)

It is Sadam Hussein! the evil man with that nasty eyes!

[Donut]

Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant: actually, if we want to rid the world of terrorism, then that means ALL terrorism. to have a man pay thousands of dollars to any volunteer suicide bombers families, is terror. everyone on this forum from OTHER countries condemns the USA for its "big brother" policy. well, i agree, to a point. i see EVERYONE that needs help coming to the USA. during WWII, you europeans didnt complain much when we bailed you out with hitler, but now that it is someone who DOESNT involve you, we are in the wrong. well, that is so hipocritical. if big ben, or the eifel tower, or anything historical of YOURS was attacked, then you would GLADLY except us in a counter attack. you cant say you wouldnt, because it hasnt happened. persoanaly, i say let the world deal with their own problems for a decade or two. then the world would see how America actually helps it. i say, focus on our problems within our own country, ie. Drugs, gangs, murder, famine, etc. and stop feeding the hungry of somewhere else. stop BOMBING someone, and then spend MILLIONS more rebuilding and feeding them. that is MY tax money too, and it is ridiculeous. spend a few billion on our country, to fix it, and get rid of poverty, and the leaches of America. then we will see how the world gets along without "big brother". that is just my opinion though. im tired of people getting down on America because of all the good it does, simply because a few liberals dont agree with the killing of the "innocent". this isnt meant to be a flame, or an attack of any kind, so please, nobody take it as such. just my opinion, and my being tired of the attacks we get everyday, be it verbal or physical. that is all, good day. (eve) sorry if my spelling is bad. im drunk, and its late. thank you.

So that's a yes then is it?

[Morgan_Corbesant]

Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant: during WWII, you europeans didnt complain much when we bailed you out with hitler, but now that it is someone who DOESNT involve you, we are in the wrong. well, that is so hipocritical.

And in what way is this comparable to the current situation in Iraq? Las time I checked they didn't invade any countries in the past few years... And after the Gulf War, I doubt they are really eager to try again.

Don't forget Germany, Italy and Japan teamed up during the Second World War, and when Japan attacked American targets, not only Japan declared war on the US, Germany and Italy technically declared war on the US on the same time.[/QUOTE]oh, only because hussein will attack again. he STILL causes problems over there, its just that the heat on him is off do to Bin-Hidin. once this stuff in afghanistan is over, the things in iraq will more than likely be seen more frequently. hussein and bin-hidin are probably buddies, and that is likely where the latter is hiding (my opinion). im not forgetting how italy teamed up with germany when they thought they would win, then realized they were losing, so quickly converted. so its ok to go against german when they declare war on us, but we cant declare war on someone else? we cant go against afghanistan, even after the attack, and THEY declared war on us? because i see the same people condemning us going into afghanistan, doing it if we we go to iraq. that was my point. i wouldnt matter if iraq nuked a us city, SOMEONE, on this forum too, would be against us striking back. the terrorists could have LEVELED New York, but someone would be against us going back and bombing them in return. if we are going to play "big brother" then we are going to do it with everyone. lets not forget that most of europe (those in nato) are in on this too, dont just blame America. its easy to point fingers, but where will those fingers be when YOU need our help?!

[Morgan_Corbesant]

Originally posted by Grojlach: quote: Originally posted by johnny: Grojlach, the main reason they hate us is the way we live our lives, it's decadent in their opinion, plus we don't bow down to Allah and believe in other gods or don't believe at all.

So? They probably don't know any better... The only people from Europe and the US they've ever seen were probably soldiers, diplomats or (rarely and unlikely, yet possible) salesmen. And combined with the huge cultural differences I can see where their paranoia or even hate against "us" is coming from...
People from those countries who have moved to a Western country and who have acclimatized over there probably wouldn't share their beliefs. While they probably used to be persons with a similar hate and paranoia against "us" when he still lived in their old country.
And once again, just like they won't trust us completely, in the same manner people over here won't trust them either; while they're all normal people like you and me, maybe with a different religion and perspective, but having a different perspective does not make them evil. Give them time to get used to "us", and let's take some time ourselves to get used to "them". [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]actually, they know QUITE well. there is a paper published by hippies in my city. i boycott it because its made by hippies, but the cover of one of them caught my eye, so i lifted my boycott long enough to read one. it was a girl, about 18 years old, attending college here. she was from afghanistan, and was talking about whether or not she agree'd with us bombing her home country.

she said, " i grew up in afghanistan, and my family is there. the USA is bombing them, and for good reason. since the taliban came into power, we have lost all of our rights. there was a time when women wore skirts and suits to work. now, if the wind catches your clothing from underneath, and someone sees it, you can be killed on the spot for showing skin. since the taliban came into power, it is a horrible place to be. it took awhile to save for me to come here to go to college, and it is sad to see what is goin on in my home country, but i live in America now. since i moved here, i have grown to love it as well. i hope no innocent people will die, but they always do in war.
if the taliban are stopped, afghanistan might be a nice place to live again."

mind you, this was in october of last year, so it isnt word for word, but you get the point. afghanistan was being ruled by MONSTERS. well, not anymore. i read in the asian reporter here in Portland, and it was talking about art in afghanistan. when the taliban took over, they destroyed ALL pictures, paintings, and sculpters that they could, if it depicted humans or animals. they were "sacreligious" some artists in the art schools had to cover the oilbased works with water colors to hide them. look what they did to the two giant buddha's that were there. things that can NEVER be given back, destroyed by a tyrant, who was mad because even with all their money, daddy bin laden didnt by little bin a poney for his 16th birthday.

no, iraq isnt afghanistan, but President Bush stated he would END terrorism. hussein wants to pay 25,000 dollars to the families of suicide bombers. that is terrorism, thus he is a terrorist. im sure now he is cooling his heels though, at least for a bit. i say, come down with the thunder, then we will see where these terrorists stand. to me, all terrorism means ALL terrorism. that includes the IRA, even though they are doing it for good reasons, they still resort to terrorist tactics. they have killed Americans too, though on accident. they werent deliberate attacks ON Americans. some(or most) of you may not agree with me or my President, but that doesnt change facts. whine all you want, complain all you want, hate us and our policies all you want, but i will GUARANTEE you, that the next attack on you (and there WILL be one), will have you calling the man and the policies that you hate. dont forget, America isnt the only target. you should be more focused on what you are going to do when it happens to you. it IS going to happen. somewhere, sometime, when you least expect it, BOOM!! there goes a landmark, full of people, on a beautiful day in the fall. you need to put things into perspective, not just say, " you are wrong. i want my voice heard, so im speaking out", like half of the people in my state. i HATE my state, its so damn liberal. people here have no b*L*s. again, i dont mean this to be a flame or an attack, its just that i have STRONG views on the world and its policies, especially when they deal with me and the country that i am not only sworn, but morally OBLIGATED to protect. thank you all again, have a nice day.

[Animal]

Originally posted by johnny: War on drugs is ONE war America will never win, that's one thing i know for sure. And about the war on terrorism, it's easy to fight a hostile nation, you know who your enemies are, but now it's fighting against an enemy with no face. This war will also probably never be won !

I would've thought the US would've learned this lesson in Vietnam. You can't fight someone you can't see.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant: oh, only because hussein will attack again. he STILL causes problems over there, its just that the heat on him is off do to Bin-Hidin. once this stuff in afghanistan is over, the things in iraq will more than likely be seen more frequently. hussein and bin-hidin are probably buddies, and that is likely where the latter is hiding (my opinion). im not forgetting how italy teamed up with germany when they thought they would win, then realized they were losing, so quickly converted. so its ok to go against german when they declare war on us, but we cant declare war on someone else? we cant go against afghanistan, even after the attack, and THEY declared war on us? because i see the same people condemning us going into afghanistan, doing it if we we go to iraq. that was my point. i wouldnt matter if iraq nuked a us city, SOMEONE, on this forum too, would be against us striking back. the terrorists could have LEVELED New York, but someone would be against us going back and bombing them in return. if we are going to play "big brother" then we are going to do it with everyone. lets not forget that most of europe (those in nato) are in on this too, dont just blame America. its easy to point fingers, but where will those fingers be when YOU need our help?!

LOL! Are you sure you were reading *my* post when you were typing that? I was saying you shouldn't make comparisons between the situation during WWII and the possible attack against Iraq... Not sure what you are trying to say now. I think you're defending the war against Afghanistan now? Since when was that the subject of this thread? And else you've completely lost me...
And it's alright to strike back, no one has ever said you shouldn't, but most of the criticism we have on the US is actually about the way the US wishes to strike back. And levelling an entire country just to kill a handful of terrorists doesn't exactly win beauty contests... It may do the trick, but in my opinion it actually does more harm than good.

[ 07-06-2002, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant: actually, they know QUITE well. there is a paper published by hippies in my city. i boycott it because its made by hippies, but the cover of one of them caught my eye, so i lifted my boycott long enough to read one. it was a girl, about 18 years old, attending college here. she was from afghanistan, and was talking about whether or not she agree'd with us bombing her home country. she said, " i grew up in afghanistan, and my family is there. the USA is bombing them, and for good reason. since the taliban came into power, we have lost all of our rights. there was a time when women wore skirts and suits to work. now, if the wind catches your clothing from underneath, and someone sees it, you can be killed on the spot for showing skin. since the taliban came into power, it is a horrible place to be. it took awhile to save for me to come here to go to college, and it is sad to see what is goin on in my home country, but i live in America now. since i moved here, i have grown to love it as well. i hope no innocent people will die, but they always do in war. if the taliban are stopped, afghanistan might be a nice place to live again." mind you, this was in october of last year, so it isnt word for word, but you get the point. afghanistan was being ruled by MONSTERS. well, not anymore. i read in the asian reporter here in Portland, and it was talking about art in afghanistan. when the taliban took over, they destroyed ALL pictures, paintings, and sculpters that they could, if it depicted humans or animals. they were "sacreligious" some artists in the art schools had to cover the oilbased works with water colors to hide them. look what they did to the two giant buddha's that were there. things that can NEVER be given back, destroyed by a tyrant, who was mad because even with all their money, daddy bin laden didnt by little bin a poney for his 16th birthday.

Respectful note against "hippies", btw. Are you going to boycott me now as well? As I adopt many of their ideas, and I'm probably a "hippie" to your standards.
And why did you post that bit anyways? You're not refuting my point, you're actually proving my point about the media bias created by the Government over there, being at the basis of the paranoia and hate towards the West... I won't doubt for a minute that the Taliban did some horrible things to our standards and it's convenient enough the US was able to combine the two, but without the WTC attack, the Taliban would still be in the lead in Afghanistan and most Americans wouldn't care less. There is a part of sad ironic hypocrisy in your example... I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't have paid this girl's story that much attention if Bin Laden decided to go and hide in a different country instead.

Originally posted by Morgan_Corbesant: no, iraq isnt afghanistan, but President Bush stated he would END terrorism. hussein wants to pay 25,000 dollars to the families of suicide bombers. that is terrorism, thus he is a terrorist. im sure now he is cooling his heels though, at least for a bit. i say, come down with the thunder, then we will see where these terrorists stand. to me, all terrorism means ALL terrorism. that includes the IRA, even though they are doing it for good reasons, they still resort to terrorist tactics. they have killed Americans too, though on accident. they werent deliberate attacks ON Americans. some(or most) of you may not agree with me or my President, but that doesnt change facts. whine all you want, complain all you want, hate us and our policies all you want, but i will GUARANTEE you, that the next attack on you (and there WILL be one), will have you calling the man and the policies that you hate. dont forget, America isnt the only target. you should be more focused on what you are going to do when it happens to you. it IS going to happen. somewhere, sometime, when you least expect it, BOOM!! there goes a landmark, full of people, on a beautiful day in the fall. you need to put things into perspective, not just say, " you are wrong. i want my voice heard, so im speaking out", like half of the people in my state. i HATE my state, its so damn liberal. people here have no b*L*s. again, i dont mean this to be a flame or an attack, its just that i have STRONG views on the world and its policies, especially when they deal with me and the country that i am not only sworn, but morally OBLIGATED to protect. thank you all again, have a nice day.

...
Rrrrright, you have a nice day as well.
And once again (I must have said that thousands of times recently), criticising the US politics is not the same as hating America or being anti-American... Sheesh. Maybe you should read the thread Barry the Sprout started a few days ago, he had some very valid points concerning this matter.
And why do you put an emphasis on the fact that the IRA also killed Americans along the way? When it comes to killing, nationality of the victims should *not* matter, nor the nationality of the killers. The only thing that matters is the identity of the victims and of the killers or the possible organization behind it. Or is an innocent American life really more worth than an innocent Afghanistan life in your opinion?

[ 07-06-2002, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Jerhal]

If we just wanted to level the place we could just nuke them from here. Last time I watched the news Afghanistan still had a high building to terrorist ratio. If the US does go in it won't be to 'wipe out' the country but just to disable their military and military instilations.

Do you all remember in 1981 when Isreal made a surgical strike against a Nuklear Plant in Iraq? The world slammed them for it but of course investigators did find equipment for makeing nukelear weapons under the facility. Imainge what would have happened in Desert Storm if Isreal hadn't done that? Our troups would have been greeted by an A-bomb.

The way I see it we have two options, 1- Take out whatever threat exists there now and save lives on both sides in the long run. Install a better government that, in the long run, will provide better services and freedoms to the people of Iraq. Or 2 - Wait for them to Nuke Or GAS Isreal or a US City then go with my first plan, Just Nuke the whole place.

The FACT is that Arab terrorists will unlikely target European countries and cities opting more for US and Isreali targets. Europe has more to lose if we INVADE Iraq then it does if we just do nothing at all. Mainly because gas prices would likely increase globably.

IMHO if Arab terrorists were to strike in Europe they would likey target England like they were planning on 9/11. London WAS one of their targets on that day but due to what happened in the US all planes in Europe were grounded and they were unable to carry out the planned attack.

[ 07-06-2002, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Jerhal ]

[Animal]

Originally posted by Jerhal: Install a better government that, in the long run, will provide better services and freedoms to the people of Iraq.

Don't you mean a government that will provide better services for the US?