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Old 11-15-2006, 09:39 AM   #1
Leonis
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Join Date: March 6, 2001
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How great!

http://www.joinred.com/home.asp

Read their manifesto. Not a charity, a business model...

Check out their MySpace:

http://www.myspace.com/joinred

More of this needs to happen and more importantly, we need to support things like this. Making a difference is not about donating once in a while; it's about contributing continuously. And if people like this can make it that, as we consume (as we will do anyway) we help... Wow. I like this idea. Kids could be buying iPods and providing medicine for AIDS without even realising! Smart. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

BTW, I'm not being Aussie sarcastic bastard, I am sincere in this post.

[ 11-15-2006, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Leonis ]
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Old 11-15-2006, 09:56 AM   #2
Leonis
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I was just having a discussion last night with a few friends about this, and one of them was saying all these celebrities who support certain causes could fix many things just by donating heaps more than they do. The whole Madonna/adoption thing came up etc...

But it all suddenly made sense to me. Live8 for example was put forward not as a fundraiser, but an awareness. And here's what I think the point is. There's probably around 1 billion people (my guesstimate) who could afford around US$1 a day, every day for the rest of their lives, to aid the other 5 billion +. Celebrities can only contribute so much (and yes, they could contribute much more) before it runs out. But imagine if 1 billion people put in just $1 a day, everyday, forever.... US$1 Billion a day, everyday to enhance and increase health, safety, lifestyle etc... for the other 5 Billion. We're nowhere near this figure! Why? What is wrong with us?

It starts with me. It starts with you. Cliche? Not when people are dying and suffering needlessly. I am convicted and I'm going to start doing more, and more. I believe I can make a difference...
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:28 PM   #3
ZFR
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How about this,
I could give 1$ for a person in Africa who's done absolutely nothing to deserve it.
Or I could spend the 1$ on, say, a loaf of bread. I would be giving it directly to the baker, and indirectly to the miller, farmer, driver and lots of other people who have done a lots of hard work and put in their best effort to deserve it.

Why is the first option considered better?

The net effect is same: 1$ changed its owner. Only in second case as an addition a loaf of bread got produced.

Celebrities can give millions dollars to children who have done nothing to deserve it.
Or spend millions on limousines, building palaces, i.e giving it to thousands of builders, architects, car producers... etc, who put in hard work to deserve the money.

.

I'm not against charity as such. But I won't give a single cent to someone whose only argument is NEED. Who use this NEED as a claim on my money. Who say that I should give because someone else NEEDS it. Who say I should give because I HAVE and he doesn't. Because without it he'll be poor, homeless, sick, dead, all of the above, take your pick.
I checked the RED thing website and there isn't a single word about who those people getting the money are other than they are sick with AIDS. Well, being sick isn't a reason for you to get my money. So thanks, but no thanks.

[ 11-15-2006, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: ZFR ]
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:05 PM   #4
Bozos of Bones
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You aren't giving money to people with AIDS. You are giving money to the RED foundation that uses that money to distribute pills to people with AIDS. I don't think you actually read the Manifesto.
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Old 11-15-2006, 01:42 PM   #5
ZFR
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bozos of Bones:
You aren't giving money to people with AIDS. You are giving money to the RED foundation that uses that money to distribute pills to people with AIDS. I don't think you actually read the Manifesto.
I beg to differ. I think I know better than you whether *I* read the manifesto or not.
Your argument is completely beside the point. The beneficiary, the sole reason the foundation is asking me to give money are the sick people. And there isn't anything written about them other than that they are sick and can't afford the "pills" themselves. Which is not a reason for me to provide the money.
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Old 11-15-2006, 05:24 PM   #6
Sir Krustin
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I agree %110 with ZFR.

Give a fish to someone, and they're hungry again later.

Teach them to fish, and they can feed themselves for the rest of their lives.

Useless beggars and panhandlers are a blight on our society, and it's far too easy to get money doing so. There are all sorts of people locally who don't need to ask for help, but do because they know they can make $100+ per day doing so, and providing absolutely nothing in return.

[ 11-15-2006, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Sir Krustin ]
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Old 11-15-2006, 06:01 PM   #7
Leonis
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZFR:
How about this,
I could give 1$ for a person in Africa who's done absolutely nothing to deserve it.
Or I could spend the 1$ on, say, a loaf of bread. I would be giving it directly to the baker, and indirectly to the miller, farmer, driver and lots of other people who have done a lots of hard work and put in their best effort to deserve it.

Why is the first option considered better?

The net effect is same: 1$ changed its owner. Only in second case as an addition a loaf of bread got produced.

Celebrities can give millions dollars to children who have done nothing to deserve it.
Or spend millions on limousines, building palaces, i.e giving it to thousands of builders, architects, car producers... etc, who put in hard work to deserve the money.

.

I'm not against charity. But I won't give a single cent to someone whose only argument is NEED. Who use this NEED as a claim on my money. Who say that I should give because someone else NEEDS it. Who say I should give because I HAVE and he doesn't. Because without it he'll be poor, homeless, sick, dead, all of the above, take your pick.
I checked the RED thing website and there isn't a single word about who those people getting the money are other than they are sick with AIDS. Well, being sick isn't a reason for you to get my money. So thanks, but no thanks.
Maybe they don't deserve your money, maybe they didn't deserve Edi Amin or Pol Poht as a malicious dictator either. Maybe they didn't deserve to be overrun by European imperialists. Maybe Poland didn't deserve to be invaded by Germany.

Notice there's no loaves of bread in the product line up? The thought here is not that you divert money from supporting your local businesses. But an acceptance that you're also not going to stop spending on luxury items, and should you happen to buy that new iPod, or new Converse, some of the profits (ie: the money left over after the manufacturer, the delivery man, the shop assistant etc... all get paid) can be diverted to others who, yes, need it.

I thought I'd seen poverty until I went to The Philippines. There are people being born, living and dying there and in so many countries around the world under a system where many CANNOT improve their lives by themselves.

And Sir K, we're not talking about street beggars in Canada, the USA or Australia etc where they could easily get up if they wanted.

It's ironic ZFR, that you said their only argument is NEED.

[ 11-15-2006, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Leonis ]
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Old 11-15-2006, 08:25 PM   #8
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZFR:
How about this,
I could give 1$ for a person in Africa who's done absolutely nothing to deserve it.
What human deserves to be born into wealth or poverty? With opportunities or none?

What did you do to deserve the life you were born into?

That's a very very harsh comment towards aids sufferers born with the disease ZFR. We give to those in need because we can, and because it could be us if things were different. No-one deserves anything. The world isn't a fair place. We come into the world without even the means to move ourselves. Did you deserve being fed by whoever fed you as a baby? I'm sure you kicked and screamed and were a right prat like every other baby.

Humans only survive their first years because people selflessly give to them.

So all is a blessing.

I for one believe in sharing that blessing around. If we can give, give.

[ 11-15-2006, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 11-15-2006, 08:30 PM   #9
Yorick
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I personally know the guy that started charity: water for Africans in poverty.

He works his arse off for those "Africans that don't deserve it."

But it's a trade. You buy water and all the profits build wells for entire villages in Africa, lifting entire communities out of the poverty cycle they were undeservingly born into.

http://www.charityis.com/

Quote:

For me, charity is practical. Sometimes easy, sometimes inconvenient, always necessary. It is the ability to use one's position of influence, relative wealth and power to affect lives for the better. charity is singular and achievable.

There's a biblical parable about a man beaten near death by robbers. Stripped naked, lying roadside - people pass him by, but one man stops. He picks him up and bandages his wounds. He puts him on his horse and walks alongside until they reach an inn. Checks him in and throws down his Amex. "Whatever he needs until he gets better."

Because he could.

The dictionary defines charity as simply the act of voluntarily giving to those in need. The word comes from the latin "caritas&qu ot; or simply love. In Colossians 3, the Bible instructs readers to "put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness."

Although i'm still not sure what that means, i love the idea. To wear charity.

Join us as we explore living differently.
[ 11-16-2006, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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Old 11-15-2006, 08:41 PM   #10
Yorick
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leonis:
How great!

http://www.joinred.com/home.asp

Read their manifesto. Not a charity, a business model...

Check out their MySpace:

http://www.myspace.com/joinred

More of this needs to happen and more importantly, we need to support things like this. Making a difference is not about donating once in a while; it's about contributing continuously. And if people like this can make it that, as we consume (as we will do anyway) we help... Wow. I like this idea. Kids could be buying iPods and providing medicine for AIDS without even realising! Smart. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

BTW, I'm not being Aussie sarcastic bastard, I am sincere in this post.
Des, I love this! Thanks mate.

I'm going to buy some Red products. It's a great business model!

This one especially, as you can buy anything with it, with profits going to HIV victims:

http://www.joinred.com/products.asp?p=0
Quote:
American Express is a founding partner of (PRODUCT) RED. Every time you shop with American Express RED we will give 1% of your total spend to the Global Fund to help fight AIDS in Africa. Has there ever been a better reason to shop?

Every quarter we transfer 1% of all eligible spend, up to £5,000 on your Card, to the Global Fund. And if you spend more than £5,000 in a year, the REDmoney rate increases to 1.25% on all spend above the threshold. We’ll also transfer to the Global Fund an extra £5 if you spend on the Card within the first month of receiving it. For more information visit AmericanExpressRED.co.uk AVAILABLE ONLY IN THE UK
Oh shite, it's only available in Britain.... wtf???

Hey, so they give 1%? Did you know that's only 1% less than the prescribed amount Muslims should give to charity? All buy just buying your regular stuff.

[ 11-15-2006, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]
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