Official Rugby World Cup Thread

[Donut]

Originally posted by Davros: Looks like I will have to send you a tape of our famous victory over your guys at Twickenham a few years back (ie the first time we met Bill). Pot, Kettle Black, and I am afraid you won't find booing the kicker to be either an Aussie thing or a new thing

But booing an Argentinian kicker is somewhat beyond the pale.

BTW - we use DVD's now, is your video in black & white?

[Davros]

Chortle guffaw - this from a man who spent the last 3 Football World Cups booing any and all Argentine kickers . Methinks the man doth protest too much m'lud .

And yes - I do have a DVD - but we are talking an event of some 12 years ago aren't we - I did not have the DVD back then [img]smile.gif[/img] .

[Donut]

Originally posted by Davros: And yes - I do have a DVD - but we are talking an event of some 12 years ago aren't we - I did not have the DVD back then [img]smile.gif[/img] .

Thank you for reiterating my point. By the time you next win it we'll all be in a holographic stadium watching the final being played on the moon!

[img]smile.gif[/img]

[Memnoch]

Warning in advance: War & Peace coming... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

This is an article that I wrote for a New Zealand rugby website, thought I'd post it here...


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FRUSTRATING, BUT WE'LL TAKE THE WIN, THANKS...

As a Wallaby supporter, how you viewed the game on Friday night would depend on what your perspective of Argentina is. If you think they're a useless bunch of no-hopers, then you would have been very dissatisfied with the score of 24-8. If you think that Los Pumas are a damn good international team, possibly among the best of the so-called "Second Five" of rugby, then you would probably realise that a 50-point scoreline would have been unrealistic and that the important thing for both the team, the nation and the tournament, was for the hosts to get off to a winning start.

And win they did - but the way that they won could only be described as scratchy. At times sublime, at times fumbling - it was a frustrating game to watch.

If I had to choose a word to escapsulate how I felt immediately after the game, that would be it - FRUSTRATING. It was frustrating because we created a lot of opportunities but our finishing let us down, either throwing a 50-50 pass which either went to ground or got intercepted, or we dropped the ball in the tackle. It was frustrating because we had the Pumas defence at sixes and sevens for most of the first half but didn't take advantage. It was frustrating because we then went to sleep in the second half and shifted the engine back to second gear, giving the Pumas a sniff. It was frustrating because we conceded a try that shouldn't have been conceded.

Most of all, it was frustrating because for the first time in the last couple of years I could sense a different style of play starting to emerge on the field in front of me - there was less emphasis on the phase-building, turning-the-ball-back-inside-style of play that we'd had since the 1999 World Cup. I could see the start of some promising backline movements involving decoys, angled runners, second-man plays to create overlaps, and cutout passes to hit wide runners. In short, all the stuff that Steady Eddie had been promising us for the past two years. It's been so long that I'd almost forgotten what he'd promised us!

It was frustrating to see all those promising moves break down due to poor execution, poor technique and just a general lack of match fitness. It's doubly frustrating because this fumbling, bumbling and stumbling has been going on this whole year - one must ask the question: are they learning from their mistakes? I realise that it's the first game, and first games are usually tough, and the Wallabies haven't played in two months. But it's a bit like taking a sports car out for a test drive, fanging it along a twisty mountain road, to start to really appreciate the handling, the acceleration, the potential that is there - only for the engine to continually start knocking because some moron's put the wrong bloody fuel in it. It was that kind of feeling on Friday night.

For example: something as simple as the backline not standing deep enough. This has been a problem since our first Test this year, against Ireland. We got away with it against them because their defence was pathetic. We were exposed against England and also throughout the TriNations - our runners were not standing deep enough and therefore were not hitting the ball at speed, or the ball was going behind them. Fast-forward to the World Cup and it's STILL a problem. Are we learning from our mistakes or what?

Having said that, a win is a win and we'll take it. It WAS a tough game first up and we came through with a tough win, at the cost of losing David Giffin, our key lineout general. No matter what anyone says, Los Pumas are a damn good team - they beat France's 2nd string 2-0 in Buenos Aires earlier this year, and this was the same French 2nd 15 that took the All Blacks to the wire in Wellington, losing by just 8 points - and they lost by a point to South Africa literally after the final whistle in June. They are a very good international team, definitely not a minnow, and we did beat them with enough to spare. We'll be able to build on this game, seeing as we're playing Romania next, if we don't put 50 points on them (and Namibia after that) we've got serious problems. I think we'll have too much class for Ireland as well, if we play to even 70% of our potential we'll beat them. It's the big contenders we have to worry about - England and New Zealand - neither would be losing any sleep from what they saw on Friday night. More worrying was the fact that we seemed to go into our shells again in the second half and it took a 70th minute try from Argentina to rouse the Wallabies from their torpor.

On watching the tape my spirits rose slightly - Australia didn't play as badly as I thought they did from the stands. Bit hard to see all the close-in work from up there, but I thought we contested the scrums quite well - we certainly didn't get pushed around as much as originally thought, we won one against the feed and we showed a degree of creativity in nullifying Los Pumas' supposed advantage. It's called being street smart and working around your weaknesses! Don't think we'll be able to do it again, though!

That said, Al Baxter, the rookie tighthead, did get folded a few times scrummaging against Roberto Grau - he was the main reason for the instability whenever the OZ scrum did get put under pressure. Looked more like a case of poor timing in the contact than anything else. Maybe Ben Darwin would be a better scrummaging option, but Baxter was better around the field. The occasion probably got to him but I would persevere - he will be better for the experience and he was a lot more mobile in the scrum than say someone like Pato Noriega, who would have kept the scrum straight but you wouldn't see cooee of him in open play.

Forwards...Dave Lyons was a barnstormer, went off the boil a bit in the 2nd half but is starting to fulfill the promise of the last 2 years. If he can maintain his workrate he will prove my hypothesis that we don't really need Toutai Kefu anyway. George Smith didn't do much in running the ball but he along with Phil Waugh was instrumental in enabling the ball to be presented quickly at the breakdown. Waugh had a blinder in open play, he was everywhere. Brendan Cannon and Nathan Sharpe also impressed in carrying the ball forward, although we didn't attack the central channel that often tonight. We dominated the lineouts as well - irrespective of whether or not Mario Ledesma did an Anton Oliver in throwing the ball in, we still won our throws and put pressure on theirs.

As for the backs...lots of handling errors and lots of rustiness, and that was very frustrating to watch from up top, but a second watching on TV showed that we've definitely got the right idea in spreading the ball wide - lots of second man plays and decoys and angled running. We created a hell of a lot of chances but let ourselves down with poor execution and 50-50 passes. This fluency should come with practice against some of the lesser tier teams.

From the stands I thought Joe Roff had a shocker. On a second viewing maybe I was a bit too harsh on him - he did play reasonably well and maybe his big-game experience would be better than Lote Tuqiri's superior physical talent at this stage. I would like to see Lote get some decent game time though, either as a sub or play a full game against one of the minnows. Matt Burke played a pedestrian game and acted well as a link but we want and need much more from our 13 - we need him making breaks, breaking the line, creating gaps and generating hesitancy in the defence. Likewise with Elton Flatley - too many cutout passes!! Just put it through the hands like the Panthers or the Roosters do it. Unfortunately since we haven't exactly set the world on fire from a tryscoring perspective we need his boot. Thought Bernie Larkham had his best game since the Super 12 - really threatened the defence with his running and his passing, only let himself down with his kicking in general play. Georgie Gregan played much better as well, less backchatting, less penalty milking and cleared the ball from the base of the breakdown much more quickly - that's what he's there for! Rogers, mixed bag - dropped a couple of high balls but he's one player that will make breaks and create gaps for people. Easily better than Hog Latham at fullback and he'll be better for this hitout.

In other words - a PASS mark, but plenty of room for improvement, and I think we're heading in the right direction. Maybe it was optimistic to expect them to score 40-50 points in this game - but with the number of breaks they made and chances they created only to let themselves down with poor execution, they should have.

An addendum: some pundits on this site have been prattling about the fact that the Argies got 61% possession and dominated the second half. What they didn't tell you is that most of it came from static ball and meaningless recycling which got them nowhere anyway, so who cares?? I recall a certain team having 75% possession against England earlier this year and doing nothing with it...can you remember who that team was, Foamie? I'll give you a hint...they wear black... {grins}

So to summarise...still not satisfied, lots to work on, but we can and will build from this - which is more than I can say for our TriNations effort, when I was in the depths of despair. But...don't think for a minute that my support is less because of my criticism. My standards are very high and given the Wallabies' track record in the last couple of decades I think they should be. I know that we were never in true danger of losing to Los Pumas, my frustration stems from the fact that we created enough opportunities to win by 30+ points, but poor finishing and poor options let us down. At the end of the day we are a top-tier rugby nation and we expect our team to win, and win well. We need to benchmark ourselves against teams like England and New Zealand as they're the opposition we'll be facing in the crunch games, and we need to do much better before we'd even register on their radar screens.

But a decent enough start.

I should also say something about the opening ceremony itself. The atmosphere at the Olympic Stadium Friday evening was incredible. It was packed from 4pm, gorgeous girls giving away CocaCola caps, scarves, all sorts of stuff, INXS and George playing through the afternoon, thankfully the rain held off, and at least we won - for the sake of the huge home crowd.

It brought back memories of the Olympics - the smiles on every supporter's face, the friendliness, and the fact that ALL the fans were able to mix and enjoy themselves. The beer queues were horrendous as I knew they would be. Parking wasn't too bad if you got there early. Spectacular opening ceremony. All in all it went off without a hitch I thought. And the pubs were overflowing afterwards - that's always fun!

Till next.

Player ratings:

• Rogers - created some breaks but poor ball security and poor options taken at times. 5/10
• Sailor - looked dangerous with ball in hand, easily Australia's best back. Always broke the first tackle. 7.5/10
• Burke - where was he??? Couldn't see from where I was sitting and I was using binoculars. 3/10
• Flatley - pedestrian in open play but kicked his goals. 6/10
• Roff - made one good run that resulted in a try, everything else was sh!thouse. Can't believe how much this guy is overrated. Pensioner and should make way for Lote. 4/10
• Larkham - made some decent second man plays but kicking again left a lot to be desired. 5/10
• Gregan - not his best game (hasn't had his best game for a while) - still plays to referee too much. 5/10
• Lyons - made some good ground out wide and improved his workrate. 6/10
• Waugh - everywhere on field, was Australia's best forward. 8/10
• Smith - overshadowed by Waugh, bombed a certain try by taking too long to fwcken pass the ball in 1st half. 5/10
• Giffin - ran lineouts well till injured in 2nd half. 5/10
• Sharpe - dominated lineouts and good workrate. 6/10
• Baxter - was put under pressure against Grau in the front row but had a good workrate in open play. Looks to have a good future if he can improve his scrummaging. 5/10
• Cannon - aside from a couple of lineout shockers was his usual busy self. Needs to cut down on errors. 6/10
• Young - from where I was sitting didn't do much but our scrum didn't get dominated so he must've done ok. Backed up well around the field. 6/10

Reserves:

• Vickerman - did well in the tight phases when he came on and added some mongrel. 6/10
• Giteau - added a lot of spark when he came on but unlikely to oust Flatley at 12 at this stage. 5/10
• Darwin - added some stability to the scrum when he came on and must be pressing Baxter for a starting spot. 6/10
• Tuqiri, Whitaker, Cockbain, Paul - can't really rate them as they came on with less than 5 minutes to go. One would ask - what is the point, really??

Send all comments, compliments, complaints, personal abuse and death threats to memnoch@kiwirugby.net.

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*sits back and waits for the requisite gloating comment from double-donut-seven, comfortable in the knowledge that he who gloats last, gloats best*

[Donut]

Originally posted by Memnoch: ------ *sits back and waits for the requisite gloating comment from double-donut-seven, comfortable in the knowledge that he who gloats last, gloats best*

So what he's saying is that Australia ain't very good anymore! Nevermind Genieboy - at least you can support the AB's in the final. (Ouch - that's gotta hurt!)

Johnny Wilkinson - man or superman? Discuss.



BTW - I always listen to Australians about gloating - they are the world champions at that!!

[ 10-13-2003, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

[Downunda]

Well said Mario and very accurate I thought [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

Well, looks like Englands injury list is growing... Lock Danny Grewcock will be out of the next two matches with a broken toe no less...

"Grewcock began as a replacement for the team's opening pool C win over Georgia but was not given a run-out after hurting his toe while warming up."

and Donut sir, fill me in please because if rugby fans you did not want, which fans would be expected to browse a thread with a title such as yours? [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

[Downunda]

While I have the top of page 2 I'll make a note to everyone that while I try to reword as much of the information I get, alot of it will be quoted from this site... http://allblacks.xtra.co.nz/home/

I meant to put it in the first post but since the last time I came to Ironworks it seems that the ability to edit has been taken from me so I hope that this is sufficient.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Downunda: Well said Mario and very accurate I thought [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img] Well, looks like Englands injury list is growing... Lock Danny Grewcock will be out of the next two matches with a broken toe no less... "Grewcock began as a replacement for the team's opening pool C win over Georgia but was not given a run-out after hurting his toe while warming up." and Donut sir, fill me in please because if rugby fans you did not want, which fans would be expected to browse a thread with a title such as yours? [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

I never said I didn't want rugby fans to view the thread.

As for the loss of Grewcock - Simon Shaw, who could get into any national team in the world, is a world class lock who is sitting at home in England waiting for the phone to ring.

[Aelia Jusa]

Did anyone else notice that they changed 'World in Union' from four beats per bar to three?

[Davros]

I never thought about it, but now that you metion it the song fits either pattern fairly well (well it does when I hum it )